The Americas Dems Insanity on 'Transgender Rights' Have Started Pushing Old School Feminists to the Conservatives

In both cases they are stark raving cultural marxist lunatics.
They're not Socialist, Marxist, or Anarcha-Feminists, they're Liberal Feminists. RadFems as LibFems reject class analysis entirely asserting the patriarchy is the main or only source of oppression of women, whereas we believe that class analyses demonstrate that's not true. Sorry they ain't ours.
 
See, I can boil down all this socialist BS into a much more simple description accurate to the situation:

Women who want women to keep having babies and are old school feminists do not support telling men that they can be women, or women that they can be men, if they get surgeries and hormones.

TERFs, or what ever you call them, are at least sane enough to know their are only two biological sexes.

The ironic thing is that during the era when feminists were actually in support of natal policies, transsexuality was a non-issue to the matter of feminism. And of course the reason for that is that we were not infested with cultural Marxism, and the entire concept of "transgender" did not exist yet.

From an axiomatic definition, they are indeed only two biological sexes, plus a failed or neuter category. However, since an XY female can grow up to have normal, healthy, XY female children, we know as a point of objective fact that you cannot axiomatically define sex based on chromosomes. They're simply not good enough; XY can produce a biological female. It is extremely rare, but that's sufficient to dismiss an axiomatic argument of male/female classification from chromosomes alone.

So what does allow us to make that definition in biological terms? Primary sexual characteristics, of course, which means functional sex organs. But a postoperative transsexual lacks these; therefore, they cannot be placed in either the male or female category. They are now in the failed or neutral category. At that point, their secondary sexual characteristics are entirely female (or for FTM, male), and their social behaviour and classification (assuming the case of true transsexuals) is recognizably fully female (or for the FTM, male). Since the secondary sexual characteristics and social role and behaviour match correctly with the identified sex, it's quite sufficient to combine that with a neuter classification on primary sex characteristics and call a MTF a woman, and a FTM a man. Indeed, this is the conservative approach which successfully eliminates any kind of social disruption, and by the preponderance of the evidence and a lack of an axiomatic definition to the contrary, allows someone to be perfectly truthful.

Of course, this is all poison to the transgenderists, because it requires them to actually get surgery, to actually attempt to pass in their identified sex instead of being "radical", and to treat social acceptance as a goal to be achieved at all costs. But that is all a fair and reasonable set of requirements, and one that separates "transing" ideological pro-trans radfems-the transgenderist ideology--from people with a sincere medical and spiritual condition.
 
They're not Socialist, Marxist, or Anarcha-Feminists, they're Liberal Feminists. RadFems as LibFems reject class analysis entirely asserting the patriarchy is the main or only source of oppression of women, whereas we believe that class analyses demonstrate that's not true. Sorry they ain't ours.


You know, I have actually take women's studies courses before, unlike the stereotype of conservatives being uneducated in you theories, and it's really quite apparent that the structural underpinning of radical feminism is just a form of cultural marxism in which the "social construct" of "Patriarchy" replaces Capital as the oppressor class. In that light I feel your protest is something of the sort of the old marxist claim that no true communism has ever been tried.
 
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You know, I have actually take women's studies courses before, unlike the stereotype of conservatives being uneducated in you theories, and it's really quite apparent that the structural of radical feminism is just a form of cultural marxism in which the "social construct" of "Patriarchy" replaces Capital as the oppressor class. In that light I feel your protest is something of the sort of the old marxist claim that no true communism has ever been tried.
Well no, in Socialist Feminism capitalism doesn't replace the patriarchy it works concurrently with it in an intersectional manner. But yes you do fit the stereotype of an uneducated conservative if you can't manage that quite major distinction.
 
Well no, in Socialist Feminism capitalism doesn't replace the patriarchy it works concurrently with it in an intersectional manner. But yes you do fit the stereotype of an uneducated conservative if you can't manage that quite major distinction.

Dear, the problem is that what you find to be so important I regard as a mere piff-poff. These subtle distinctions between variations in whether or not the patriarchy or capital is the main driver of oppression and whether or not it's working in an intersectional manner all sounds like a lot of "no true Scotsmen" claptrap and the fact that you waste so much of your brainpower on all of this--when the basic structure of the Thing-in-Itself is obvious--shows that you do not have your priorities right. So perhaps I am uneducated by your standards, but getting an education in bongo-bongo intersectional sub-feminisms sounds like too much of a headache for too short of a life, so blissfully innocent shall I remain.
 
Dear, the problem is that what you find to be so important I regard as a mere piff-poff. These subtle distinctions between variations in whether or not the patriarchy or capital is the main driver of oppression and whether or not it's working in an intersectional manner all sounds like a lot of "no true Scotsmen" claptrap and the fact that you waste so much of your brainpower on all of this--when the basic structure of the Thing-in-Itself is obvious--shows that you do not have your priorities right. So perhaps I am uneducated by your standards, but getting an education in bongo-bongo intersectional sub-feminisms sounds like too much of a headache for too short of a life, so blissfully innocent shall I remain.
I mean you use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing at all, because bereft of them, we both know that inside: That's all you are, Aunt Blair.
 
Fuck no.

Radical feminists literally dedicated their lives to fucking with other people.

They caused this mess, I think every one here has a story of an obnoxious feminist who made their day hell. Fucking hell if I threw a party I would rather invite drag queen story hour girl to the party then a radical feminist. Said person would actually be capable of being pleasant to be around and can probally cook.

In this case, no no, the left doesn't get to kick their problem children out and make them right wing when ever its fucking convinant, these girls are your problem not ours.

Also in my opinion what ever problems the transgendered community has their still much better people then rad fems because seriously god damned.
 
It feels like we've basically reached the point where scientific studies have become unreliable, especially when it comes to topics that intersect with politics. There's simply no quality control anymore, and quite a number of "researchers" with hidden agendas.

If it isn't being used to produce something physical, it's questionable. Might still be valid, but it's rarely to be accepted at face value.

I generally tend to have a lot more respect for engineers, than scientists. Engineers are paid to design and produce physical products. Scientists also provide a critical service for society, but as we've discovered over the last half-century, it's a lot easy for a researcher to just turn into a BS merchant.
 
Sometimes people are talking past each other until they get clarity on basic concepts.

For the sake of argument, assume that I just climbed down out of a spaceship.
What is this "oppression" that you Earthlings speak so much of, and why is it important?
 
I mean you use a lot of words to say absolutely nothing at all, because bereft of them, we both know that inside: That's all you are, Aunt Blair.

Well, at least I found out what the newest term for a sane person was out of all this! I unfortunately can’t spend long talking this morning, too many real life things to do. You should try that sometime.
 
If it isn't being used to produce something physical, it's questionable. Might still be valid, but it's rarely to be accepted at face value.

I generally tend to have a lot more respect for engineers, than scientists. Engineers are paid to design and produce physical products. Scientists also provide a critical service for society, but as we've discovered over the last half-century, it's a lot easy for a researcher to just turn into a BS merchant.
So I'm doing a degree in Biology right now to preface my post with a veneer of 'I am the science man' and essentially yes. I don't think that it's a case of people deliberately turning into BS merchants, but rather a case of being able to very easily form bubbles within your own learning space where you solely look at sources of your own choosing. It's is painfully easy to be able to support your argument with scientific research and painfully easy to justify more of that research. Me and my fellow students don't really set out to look at the information with the intent of analysing it but rather to find information that conforms to what we already 'know', or think that we know and then use that as a springboard for finding more of the same supporting information.

If you go into science with a political mind then you will very easily find data to back up your politics, and you can very easily (for more left learning academia) find support in that data and in your colleagues that allows for you to then justify the need for more data on that topic. Like I won't lie, I'm very hard right, probably more so than many other people on this board or people in the world and It's piss easy to find studies that show what I want them to show; but I also understand that that's not actually good research if I go out and simply find information that conforms to my own worldview. I, as an aside really want to get into mechanical and electrical engineering. My university has a fantastic society for both and offer weekly lectures and lab sessions for those interested. I can't speak for anywhere else but the biology course I am on has 200 people, and of those 200 I have met 8 (me included) men, the rest are women, heavily left leaning women at that. The mechanical and electrical engineering course has similar numbers, but overwhelmingly men. Mildly amusing as a side note.
 
Well, at least I found out what the newest term for a sane person was out of all this! I unfortunately can’t spend long talking this morning, too many real life things to do. You should try that sometime.
Oh damn scathing I am so harmed by.... oh shit it bears no resemblance to reality. Damn here I was concerned you might know some deep dark secret not just make up shit on the spot. But you are a Fascist so lying is your thing: in reality I was a bit busy doing some safety training at the firing range, taught a first-aid class, and now I’m going to sit down and clean my AR.
 
Oh damn scathing I am so harmed by.... oh shit it bears no resemblance to reality. Damn here I was concerned you might know some deep dark secret not just make up shit on the spot. But you are a Fascist so lying is your thing: in reality I was a bit busy doing some safety training at the firing range, taught a first-aid class, and now I’m going to sit down and clean my AR.

You’re probably not surprised to hear that I have always preferred the FAL. What’s a bolshie like you doing with a stock made by Mattel, anyhow? AK too rough on your delicate hands?
 
Aunt Blair

If you actually believe Republicans are some dire threat to trans people, one would thing that a trans person becoming more influential and popular with the right would be a good thing, because it makes it harder to justify acting against a group when you have a positive personal connection to that group. I don't see how hostility toward anyone working at making inroads with the right serves your interests.


But you are a Fascist so lying is your thing

I'm fairly certain facists don't have a monopoly on the concept of lying for personal and political gain.

Also, I don't think she's a facist in the way you think she is. IIRC the "records" you're referring to are of her going "well, I'm a facist in the sense of [long complicated digression]". It's intellectually dishonest to par that down to just "REEEEE, she's a facist, she admited it!"
 
If you actually believe Republicans are some dire threat to trans people, one would thing that a trans person becoming more influential and popular with the right would be a good thing, because it makes it harder to justify acting against a group when you have a positive personal connection to that group. I don't see how hostility toward anyone working at making inroads with the right serves your interests.




I'm fairly certain facists don't have a monopoly on the concept of lying for personal and political gain.

Also, I don't think she's a facist in the way you think she is. IIRC the "records" you're referring to are of her going "well, I'm a facist in the sense of [long complicated digression]". It's intellectually dishonest to par that down to just "REEEEE, she's a facist, she admited it!"

The quote was really just meant as a disruption to the common but very wrong notion that fascism is the opposite half of communism. While I do think some of the early fascists had a correct idea of how to run a City State, unsurprisingly since Italy has a long tradition of them, I think during the Mussolini era the ideology was ruined, and centralisation is a moral evil, so the fascist ideology should have never tried to rule anything larger than the Free State of Fiume under d’Annunzio, and should have never incorporated the totalitarian elaborations under Mussolini in any case. My politics are functional first of all (never compromise what works for ideology, ever) and integralist or distributivist on the scale of a nation the size of the US, which I don’t see as actually being very far removed from Jeffersonianism.
 
I am indeed Sir the founder and, with @prinCZess (voluntary or not!) a proud member of the Sietch Women’s Monarchist League
I do not consent to being included in this league! Do ya'all see what she's doing to me, here? Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
...
Okay, if I'm getting dragged into the Monarchist clubhouse just because of my name and a bad joke, we really need to get a better acronymn than 'SWML'.

As to the thread-topic...A lot of this brand of folks aren't going to coalition with conservatives to any major degree. It's a 'single issue voter' type of thing where, at most, them and conservatives goals will align occasionally on stuff that puts the braks on Trans stuff, but that 'radical feminist' part of TERF have a lot more grievances and ideological disagreements than solely the Trans issues.

The strange overlap on social issues from the radfem and from the hyper-conservative realm always fascinated me though. The same porn-banning, sex-negative stuff gotten to from such radically different starting-points is...impressive from a simple logical standpoint.
 

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