Had Trump been reelected in 2020, do you think that Putin would have still invaded Ukraine?

bintananth said:
You are completely wrong about this ... along with many other things you say.

Russia isn't even close to having the highest HIV infection rate. That "honor" belongs to sub-Saharan Africa.

www.kff.org

The Global HIV/AIDS Epidemic | KFF

This updated fact sheet provides the latest data on the global HIV/AIDS epidemic, including impact on affected and vulnerable populations, treatment and prevention efforts, and an overview of the U.S. and global responses to the epidemic.
www.kff.org www.kff.org

Yes, Russian HIV rates are about 70 times higher than American HIV rates but they aren't anywhere close to the worst by any stretch of the immagination.
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Alright my bad
Worst in Europe.
Worse then the US.
 
Marduk said:
That's just silly:
www.foxbusiness.com

Soros calls China's Xi Jinping 'the greatest threat that open societies face today’

Billionaire George Soros on Monday warned that Chinese President Xi Jinping is "the greatest threat that open societies face today."
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
Soros hates competition who keep access to shady money schemes to themselves rather than give them to him, but doesn't make the competition any better.
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I didn't say Putin is good, necessarily, but... look, just read what I wrote before:
Aldarion said:
Maybe. Most likely, Soros and co. provoked Putin into attacking Ukraine in order to push Ukraine into debt slavery and gain control over Ukraine's wheat fields.

After all, they tried something similar with Croatia in 1990s, but Tudjman outplayed them by giving Croatian companies to native oligarchs instead of selling them to foreigners. Of course, once Tudjman died, they immediately went and compensated for that setback.
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Putin had reasons to attack Ukraine, some of them insane, some of them logical, but look at how Zelensky behaves. Tudjman used ceasefire agreements to buy time for Croatia to arm and eventually turn the tide; Zelensky so far has not accepted any ceasefire agreements if memory serves me, despite the fact that right now he is receiving significant hardware from the West - some of which Ukrainian troops will not be familiar with.

But that hardware will come with a price. Namely, Western companies (Mosanto et. al.) will take over Ukrainian wheat production, as I mentioned here. It began in 2014 already.
 
Aldarion said:
I didn't say Putin is good, necessarily, but... look, just read what I wrote before:


Putin had reasons to attack Ukraine, some of them insane, some of them logical, but look at how Zelensky behaves. Tudjman used ceasefire agreements to buy time for Croatia to arm and eventually turn the tide; Zelensky so far has not accepted any ceasefire agreements if memory serves me, despite the fact that right now he is receiving significant hardware from the West - some of which Ukrainian troops will not be familiar with.

But that hardware will come with a price. Namely, Western companies (Mosanto et. al.) will take over Ukrainian wheat production, as I mentioned here.
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Except they havnt done that yet though.
Ukraine is having help from the Turks for thier wheat stuff.
Not the west.
 
Aldarion said:
Putin had reasons to attack Ukraine, some of them insane, some of them logical, but look at how Zelensky behaves. Tudjman used ceasefire agreements to buy time for Croatia to arm and eventually turn the tide; Zelensky so far has not accepted any ceasefire agreements if memory serves me, despite the fact that right now he is receiving significant hardware from the West - some of which Ukrainian troops will not be familiar with.
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A cease fire is the worst possible thing for Ukraine.

Russia currently has made significant territorial gains, and if a cease-fire is agreed to, that will have several significant effects:

1. It will allow Russia to solidify control over those regions.
2. It will allow Russia time to rebuild its military and stockpiles of munitions.
3. It will remove the urgency the West feels about supporting the Ukraine, which will result in a sharp drop in military support.
4. It will allow Russia to push the current territorial control as the 'new normal.'

All of which will lead to two more key things:

A: Russia will have zero compunction about sabotaging Ukrainian war material during the cease fire, as they did in years past, detonating ammunition dumps and the like in preparation for the next round of war, which will happen. Meanwhile, if the Ukrainians do likewise, the Russians will use that as an excuse to go back to war with Ukraine as the 'aggressor,' killing most western willingness to provide support for round 2.

B: Untold atrocities will be committed against the Ukrainians in Russian-occupied territory.


Zelensky cannot afford to accept any cease fire or peace deal that does not involve Russia withdrawing from occupied territory. The only 'flex' he has is maybe accepting the pre-invasion borders in Luhansk and Donetsk, and even that is questionable.

Finally, the fog of war makes things uncertain, but odds are good that the Russian military is nearing exhaustion, and their cannon fodder from Luhansk and Donetsk conscripts are running out. Again, it is uncertain, but it is entirely possible, especially if HIMARS usage continues to cripple Russian artillery usage, that they will be able to break the Russian lines and force a retreat-bordering-on-route like they did to the NW and NE of Kyiv, at the least around Kherson.

If they can do that just one more time, it could very easily result in a decisive tilt of the war, with a collapse of what remains of Russian morale. Not will, but could.
 
LordsFire said:
Zelensky cannot afford to accept any cease fire or peace deal that does not involve Russia withdrawing from occupied territory. The only 'flex' he has is maybe accepting the pre-invasion borders in Luhansk and Donetsk, and even that is questionable.

Finally, the fog of war makes things uncertain, but odds are good that the Russian military is nearing exhaustion, and their cannon fodder from Luhansk and Donetsk conscripts are running out. Again, it is uncertain, but it is entirely possible, especially if HIMARS usage continues to cripple Russian artillery usage, that they will be able to break the Russian lines and force a retreat-bordering-on-route like they did to the NW and NE of Kyiv, at the least around Kherson.

If they can do that just one more time, it could very easily result in a decisive tilt of the war, with a collapse of what remains of Russian morale. Not will, but could.
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Eh, that assumes that is what is really happening. Is Russian military really nearing exhaustion or it is just wishful thinking by the West? There is so much propaganda by both sides that it is difficult to tell anymore: according to both sides' claims, their side should have won the war months ago.
 
Aldarion said:
Eh, that assumes that is what is really happening. Is Russian military really nearing exhaustion or it is just wishful thinking by the West? There is so much propaganda by both sides that it is difficult to tell anymore: according to both sides' claims, their side should have won the war months ago.
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No, it isn't assuming that; as I said, the fog of war makes it hard to tell about how spent the Russian military is.

Even if the Russian military is ready to go for another five years, Zelensky cannot accept peace without Russian withdrawal being included. Because the Russians will just make that part of an ongoing 'devour Ukraine bit by bit' strategy, and with how fickle the West is, he has no guarantee that next time he will get anywhere near as much support.

Ukraine needs to win this war, and win it decisively.
 
Marduk said:
That's just silly:
www.foxbusiness.com

Soros calls China's Xi Jinping 'the greatest threat that open societies face today’

Billionaire George Soros on Monday warned that Chinese President Xi Jinping is "the greatest threat that open societies face today."
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
Soros hates competition who keep access to shady money schemes to themselves rather than give them to him, but doesn't make the competition any better.
Click to expand...
The funniest thing about this senile old bat is that if you look what his former business partners and the people who made him his money are saying, well, it is like day vs. night compared to the garbage coming out of that grifter's mouth.

Jim Rogers in one recent interview was like "I thought having kids was a bad idea, it actually is a great idea.You should have some.Own real things that have tangible, long-lasting value, marry a farmer or get into farming."
 
Aldarion said:
Putin had reasons to attack Ukraine, some of them insane, some of them logical, but look at how Zelensky behaves. Tudjman used ceasefire agreements to buy time for Croatia to arm and eventually turn the tide; Zelensky so far has not accepted any ceasefire agreements if memory serves me, despite the fact that right now he is receiving significant hardware from the West - some of which Ukrainian troops will not be familiar with.
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There's a big assumption hidden there - that a ceasefire would in fact benefit Ukraine...
Implying Putin would be stupid enough to offer one, especially under conditions that would be beneficial to Ukraine.
There is a reason why his officials are complaining about Ukraine not wanting to talk (and make concessions) about this stuff.
As the saying goes, never interrupt an enemy when he's making a mistake, and Russia is making a lot of mistakes here.
Ukraine has the spare mobilized manpower to train on the western equipment while the old equipment with the manpower already used to it fights. Once that's done, Ukraine will be able to use the newly formed units both for counteroffensives and force rotations.
Meanwhile Russia is pushing the operational tempo to the maximum, as all the reports of their reinforcements arriving piecemeal and with hardly any refresher training show.
A ceasefire would force Russians to stop running their army winded, reorganize units and get their shit in order, something that Putin's time pressure on taking ground prevents, forcing them to fight rather inefficiently and take more losses than they would if they fought without time pressure.
And then there is the risk of territorial control consolidation and the "referendums" being something a ceasefire could be used as a calm time to prepare, as @LordsFire mentioned.
 
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History Learner said:
The "yet" in that opening sentence says it all. More Polish regions revoke anti-LGBT declarations over EU funds withdrawal:

Three more Polish regions have revoked anti-LGBT declarations over the threat of losing funds from the European Union. Councillors in the southern region of Małopolska confirmed on Monday that they had repealed their opposition to the LGBT "ideology." Authorities in the southeastern provinces of Lublin and Podkarpackie also abandoned the resolutions, according to the Polish PAP news agency. Last week, the regional assembly of Świętokrzyskie became the first to abandon their status as an "LGBT-free zone."​
​
Last week, the regional assembly of Świętokrzyskie became the first to abandon their status as an "LGBT-free zone." LGBT rights activists say the 2019 declarations made gays and lesbians feel unwelcome in Poland. The European Commission wrote to five Polish regional councils at the beginning of September urging them to abandon declarations to receive recovery funding. Earlier this year, the European Parliament also passed a resolution declaring the entire 27-member EU a “freedom zone” for LGBT people.​

As for ISIS, you mean like how U.S. documents from the time directly admit we were supporting the Islamists and Russia was opposed to them?




And? Given the choice between Epstein's Island and supporting ISIS vs Russia, then I'm on the latter.

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What exactly is wrong with the EU pressuring cities in Poland to get rid of their anti-LGBTQ+ declarations? LGBTQ+-free zones in Poland are a bad thing, after all.

And the US certainly made a mistake in supporting Islamists in Syria, no doubt about that. It didn't support the same Islamists in Iraq, though, at least not to my knowledge. Honestly, out of all of the US's attempts at regime change, Syria seems to have been the most pointless and misguided. At least Libya was full of good intentions, even if, as Obama said, NATO regretfully lacked a "day after" plan for Libya after the end of the war. :(
 
Marduk said:
And then there is the risk of territorial control consolidation and the "referendums" being something a ceasefire could be used as a calm time to prepare, as @LordsFire mentioned.
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Also an opportunity for Russia to entrench itself in the Ukrainian territories that it already controls, just like was the situation in the Donbass over the last eight years.
 
WolfBear said:
What exactly is wrong with the EU pressuring cities in Poland to get rid of their anti-LGBTQ+ declarations? LGBTQ+-free zones in Poland are a bad thing, after all.
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Because it is none of their fucking business to tell any of us what laws we pass in our own countries, that is why, and because this is just another one of the many systematic encroachments on national interests, national culture and national sovereignty undertaken by the EU, ranging from attempts to unify the energy market and force green bullshit on everyone to the ECB's zero interest rate lunacy.

Also, note, Poland is not outlawing homosexuality/LGBTBBQKFCBigMac, it is blocking some forms of pro-gender indoctrination and special interest groups and has some traditionalist ideas about marriage and family.

You will not be made to wear a funny hat or undergo whipping-based conversion therapy or be forced to eat fresh pig nuts to boost proper hormone production because you like traps if you go there.

If the Alphabet Soup wants to marry they can just walk over to Germany and get married there, no one is stopping them.

Look, you are an American, so i will simplify it, think of it as States Rights on Steroids.
 
Agent23 said:
Because it is none of their fucking business to tell any of us what laws we pass in our own countries, that is why, and because this is just another one of the many systematic encroachments on national interests, national culture and national sovereignty undertaken by the EU, ranging from attempts to unify the energy market and force green bullshit on everyone to the ECB's zero interest rate lunacy.

Also, note, Poland is not outlawing homosexuality/LGBTBBQKFCBigMac, it is blocking some forms of pro-gender indoctrination and special interest groups and has some traditionalist ideas about marriage and family.

You will not be made to wear a funny hat or undergo whipping-based conversion therapy or be forced to eat fresh pig nuts to boost proper hormone production because you like traps if you go there.

If the Alphabet Soup wants to marry they can just walk over to Germany and get married there, no one is stopping them.

Look, you are an American, so i will simplify it, think of it as States Rights on Steroids.
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You are ignoring the fact that Poland joined the European Union willingly and they knew the conditions of membership. Once you join, you have to follow the treaties.
 
Ricardolindo said:
You are ignoring the fact that Poland joined the European Union willingly and they knew the conditions of membership. Once you join, you have to follow the treaties.
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You are ignoring the fact that we are all sovereign states and that both the morals in the west and the scope of the EU's meddling have changed.
This is not the USA, we do not have an immutable constitution passed down since the time of the EU founding fathers and the assholes in Brussels are trying to grab more and more power.
 
Agent23 said:
You are ignoring the fact that we are all sovereign states and that both the morals in the west and the scope of the EU's meddling have changed.
This is not the USA, we do not have an immutable constitution passed down since the time of the EU founding fathers and the assholes in Brussels are trying to grab more and more power.
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Still, everything the European Union is doing is in accordance with the treaties that Poland signed.
I admit I am biased because I am bisexual and, thus, have strong views on LGBT rights.
 
Ricardolindo said:
Still, everything the European Union is doing is in accordance with the treaties that Poland signed.
I admit I am biased because I am bisexual and, thus, have strong views on LGBT rights.
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No one is stopping you from fucking anything you want as long as it is consensual.
We dislike special interest group propaganda and see marriage as something that is between mens and waminz, because baby making.
Don't like it, don't move east of the Vistula.
 
Agent23 said:
No one is stopping you from fucking anything you want as long as it is consensual.
We dislike special interest group propaganda and see marriage as something that is between mens and waminz, because baby making.
Don't like it, don't move east of the Vistula.
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I care deeply about LGBT rights all over the world, including Poland. I want all my fellow LGBT people across the world to have the same rights I have in Portugal.
 
Ricardolindo said:
I care deeply about LGBT rights all over the world, including Poland. I want all my fellow LGBT people across the world to have the same rights I have in Portugal.
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"Ree, there aren't enough waminz in x.y.z. the West is oppressive, nevermind the fact that they have zero rights in Saudi Arabia..."

Congratulations, your arguments are feminazi-level stupid.

Why don't you bark up the Islamic world's tree, or Africa's, where they murder gay men and corrective rape lesbians?

There is this thing called sovereignty and national traditions, if Polish gays dislike that they can't into silly propaganda about how great they are or get married in Poland, they can move.

Also, you are not a Polish citizen and have no say in what happens in Poland.
 
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