Advocate: "You won't date trans people because you are ignorant, biased, and Transphobic"

Tyanna of Pentos said:
Am I now “Sedanophobic”?
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I have no freaking idea what makes different cars different beyond body shape and the value of brands. This question is beyond my faculties... and I don't give enough of a feth about cars to look into it more for the sake of an internet argument.
Cyan Saiyajin said:
Are all physical characteristics we have no control over fine to hide and omit even if the relationship was going well before hand?
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Is it a lie to not mention something you don't find terribly important about yourself prior to the date? If a woman only likes blue-eyes and winds up going on a date with someone with brown eyes, did that brown eyed person decieve her by not putting their eye-color in their intro?

Now, when it comes to trans people that's a bit more sticky because a lot of them DO find it important, but since the scenario laid out was that it came up in conversation during a date it's fair to assume, in my opinion at least, that said trans person doesn't attach much weight to them being trans. Do you expect people to lay out every tiny detail in advance and anything else is a lie? Should your profile have your birthsign, stone, blood-type, and vaccination history on it?

Again, breaking off the "relationship in search of long time partnership and sex" over the other person being trans is not "phobic", storming out of the date in a huff over a small detail that cannot be changed is.

Would storming out of the date in a huff over your partner being from a Jewish family NOT be "phobic"?
 
ShadowsOfParadox said:
yes, but if you interrupt the date that's been going well with "X intrinsic attribute means I now dislike you despite liking nearly everything else about you" I have a hard time not calling that "phobic"... doesn't mean it's illegal.

If, at the end of the date you say that you're not sexually attracted to them because of X but you like them as a person that's not "phobic". That's tastes.
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I now dont want to date you, to foster an intimate relationship in the pursuit of having a family. There are many, many intrinsic characteristics completely non-phobic that are reasonable not to date someone for. Phobia means an irrational fear, and these reasons can be both totally rational and not fear based. Not wanting to date someone autistic doesnt mean you have some intrinsic fear, it could be because you dont want to have kids with them and dont see them as necessarily being someone to have a stable relationship with. Lacking sex organs and not wanting to pursue a relationship with them, surely you would say that isn't some phobia but them lacking a key component to relationships is kind of a reasonable thing someone might not want to date over? Intrinsic is not enough to declare it an irrational fear. Do you think not wanting to date trans people is an irrational fear, a problem, something to be shamed over and that needs to be changed?

ShadowsOfParadox said:
Would storming out of the date in a huff over your partner being from a Jewish family NOT be "phobic"?
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Storming out in a huff would be a dick move. Not wanting to date someone Jewish is not an irrational fear.
 
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FriedCFour said:
Do you think not wanting to date trans people is an irrational fear, a problem, something to be shamed over and that needs to be changed?
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No.

I think interrupting a positive experience because it'll have to end can change that experience into a negative one for both people. And also that breaking things off amicably, which I can't see why you wouldn't want to given that the date was going well prior, will be much easier if you do it at the end of the date instead of in the middle of it.

Also I'm still not sure how my stance of "not wanting to date someone because X isn't phobic, it's tastes" is somehow being called "it's phobic to not want to date someone because X".

Also, if you pause the date at the point the problem arises to inform them that it is a problem and why in a calm manner that's not phobic either. But the scenario presented was "storming out", and maybe it's just that my idea of what "storming out" means is shaping my response but I can't see that as not "phobic".

If you want to have nothing to do with someone you liked prior because of X intrinsic fact, that's phobic, if you either physically cannot or do not wish to have a family with them because of X intrinsic fact and you date to find someone to have a family with then not dating them is not phobic.

But then, I'm also of the opinion that I'll try nearly anything once. So, eh, take it as you will.
 
@ShadowsOfParadox I was just using cars as a humorous example to illustrate the point. I actually agree with your opinion mostly, I just feel it cannot be called a phobia for any reason at all, I am rather strict about saying sexual preference is never a phobia, that’s all. And even if it’s a positive experience it stops being one the moment you discovered you’ve been lied to, let me assure you of that. And sins of omission count—a transsexual woman is a woman, but she also is carrying around a dozen reasons someone may not want to date her. That’s unfortunate, but it’s also life and if you want to be true to yourself you have to accept the negative consequences thereof. It’s leftism which is teaching people they have a right to never, ever suffer anything negative for any inborn trait at all. Equalism is the real problem here, it’s just another manifestation of the leftist ideology of equality of outcomes instead of opportunities.
 
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ShadowsOfParadox said:
Would storming out of the date in a huff over your partner being from a Jewish family NOT be "phobic"?
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No, but storming out of the date in a huff over your partner lying about their gender isn't "phobic". Imagine if you set up a blind date with the opposite sex (I'm assuming you're heterosexual); wouldn't you be upset if the person who showed up was the same sex as you?
 
ShadowsOfParadox said:
Is it a lie to not mention something you don't find terribly important about yourself prior to the date? If a woman only likes blue-eyes and winds up going on a date with someone with brown eyes, did that brown eyed person decieve her by not putting their eye-color in their intro?
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Thing is according to the scenario the presence of blue eyes is important to the woman so much so that she went on the date with the assumption you had them. Which means somewhere along the way something made her thought you had blue eyes, it doesn't change the idea regardless of how petty you make the scenario.

Now, when it comes to trans people that's a bit more sticky because a lot of them DO find it important, but since the scenario laid out was that it came up in conversation during a date it's fair to assume, in my opinion at least, that said trans person doesn't attach much weight to them being trans. Do you expect people to lay out every tiny detail in advance and anything else is a lie? Should your profile have your birthsign, stone, blood-type, and vaccination history on it?
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Again the detail is so important that the person in question will leave if its brought up, that means the detail was important to the other person, and that somewhere along the way the person was lead to believe that this detail was different than it was. Its funny because all of the details you chosen while are insignificant are actually things that only could be known by asking somewhere along the line. Which would imply that if she though I had or didn't have one of those things I would of had to have told her otherwise. I.E, I lied. Or at least heavily implied the opposite until directly asked.

So details are

Again, breaking off the "relationship in search of long time partnership and sex" over the other person being trans is not "phobic", storming out of the date in a huff over a small detail that cannot be changed is.

Would storming out of the date in a huff over your partner being from a Jewish family NOT be "phobic"?
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Storming out on a date where you believed the person you've met has somehow been dishonest with you is not phobic.

Terthna said:
No, but storming out of the date in a huff over your partner lying about their gender isn't "phobic". Imagine if you set up a blind date with the opposite sex (I'm assuming you're heterosexual); wouldn't you be upset if the person who showed up was the same sex as you?
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Along these lines, if I was jewish and I misled someone into believing I wasn't or was another religion, then it wasn't phobic.
 
Cyan Saiyajin said:
Along these lines, if I was jewish and I misled someone into believing I wasn't or was another religion, then it wasn't phobic.
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I'm specifically talking about sexual orientation. If you're storming out because your date follows the wrong religion, that's something different.
 
Terthna said:
I'm specifically talking about sexual orientation. If you're storming out because your date follows the wrong religion, that's something different.
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...Why? To religious people that might be conceivably just as important, raising children outside of your religion might be worse than being unable to have any at all for instance.
 
Tyanna of Pentos said:
...Why? To religious people that might be conceivably just as important, raising children outside of your religion might be worse than being unable to have any at all for instance.
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True, but if you care that much about it, you should figure that out ahead of time; and if it turns out they lied, then you can storm out. It's the lying that makes storming out justified, in my opinion, and trying to pretend you're a different gender that what you are is a lie.
 
Tyanna of Pentos said:
...Why? To religious people that might be conceivably just as important, raising children outside of your religion might be worse than being unable to have any at all for instance.
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I think there might be some misunderstanding here. Given that Judaism is an ethnoreligion. You might be talking about Judaism in two different senses or even three. The religious sense is definitely not a problem for the reason noted, and others. It gets more dicey once you get to the other senses, I'd wager.
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
You know this reminds me of some story that took place in Diamond Hotel, Philippines

A guy hired a prostitute, got pissed and surprised that she was an MTF.....then fucked her anyway a few seconds later
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>Her

ShadowsOfParadox said:
If she finds out "oh, you're Autistic" and then no, yes.
If she finds out "oh, you're X% White" and then no, yes.
If she finds out "oh, you're X% Asian" and then no, yes.

If she finds out "oh, you're a Sex-Offender" and then no, no.
If she finds out "oh, you're a devout Christian" and then no, no.
If she finds out "oh, you're a devout Muslim" and then no, no.

Intrinsic Characteristics vs Choices you see.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to have sex with someone based on their intrinsic characteristics.

Obviously.
 
Shipmaster Sane said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to have sex with someone based on their intrinsic characteristics.
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...storming out on someone you otherwise enjoy the company of is not "not wanting to have sex with them"...

sigh... I'm rather tired of my words being outright lied about so I'm just gonna unwatch and stop responding here.
 
ShadowsOfParadox said:
If she finds out "oh, you're Autistic" and then no, yes.
If she finds out "oh, you're X% White" and then no, yes.
If she finds out "oh, you're X% Asian" and then no, yes.

If she finds out "oh, you're a Sex-Offender" and then no, no.
If she finds out "oh, you're a devout Christian" and then no, no.
If she finds out "oh, you're a devout Muslim" and then no, no.

Intrinsic Characteristics vs Choices you see.
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@ShadowsOfParadox its because you made this statement on what is phobic, and then changed it from a flat no to storming out, and defended the article when the article is about saying no at all to dating transpeople. You've made multiple statements with different positions.
 
ShadowsOfParadox said:
...storming out on someone you otherwise enjoy the company of is not "not wanting to have sex with them"...

sigh... I'm rather tired of my words being outright lied about so I'm just gonna unwatch and stop responding here.
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I agree; there is something to be said for having some tact, and showing people at least the bare minimum amount of respect. Well, as long as they haven't lied to you, and thereby betrayed your respect.
 
Terthna said:
True, but if you care that much about it, you should figure that out ahead of time; and if it turns out they lied, then you can storm out. It's the lying that makes storming out justified, in my opinion, and trying to pretend you're a different gender that what you are is a lie.
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It's not "being a different gender", it's being fundamentally deformed. And I meant a direct comparison.
 
Tyanna of Pentos said:
It's not "being a different gender", it's being fundamentally deformed. And I meant a direct comparison.
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That's a matter of interpretation; regardless, we can at least agree that if they say they're a woman, even though they have a penis, then they lied.
 
Terthna said:
That's a matter of interpretation; regardless, we can at least agree that if they say they're a woman, even though they have a penis, then they lied.
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No, they omitted information which is vital and fundamental to any kind of relationship. The fundamental nature of someone's soul isn't determined by whether or not they've had surgery.
 
Tyanna of Pentos said:
No, they omitted information which is vital and fundamental to any kind of relationship. The fundamental nature of someone's soul isn't determined by whether or not they've had surgery.
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Honestly, I wonder why any of those secretly MTF types hide it for so long

Do they know their partners expected negative reaction and hope to exploit it or were they sorta indoctrinated to see things too optimistically?
 
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