Advocate: "You won't date trans people because you are ignorant, biased, and Transphobic"

Well, that is an interesting philosophy, but it isn't congruent with eastern Dharmic teaching, of course, where transsexuality reflects an accrued failing of dharma on the part of the soul, so we merely disagree on that point, on a grounds that it isn't productive to debate.

You saying that people “reincarnate” wrongly? I thought you were Religious Right, specifically Roman Catholic and likely as Name of Love to go on against the concept of coming back as anything else(I remember months back he had a problem against the Japanese sort of spiritual acceptance of death as a process and it’s not or neve the end or something)
 
You saying that people “reincarnate” wrongly? I thought you were Religious Right, specifically Roman Catholic and likely as Name of Love to go on against the concept of coming back as anything else(I remember months back he had a problem against the Japanese sort of spiritual acceptance of death as a process and it’s not or neve the end or something)

I am a conservative traditionalist adherent of a non-Christian, dharmic religion.

To answer your question: It's not that they reincarnate wrongly: That's impossible. It's that their reincarnation is to teach their soul a lesson about life which is a necessary consequence of their past actions. So transsexuals are women, but they're malformed, imperfect women in this life because of their past spiritual conduct.

(edits finished now).
 
Well, that is an interesting philosophy, but it isn't congruent with eastern Dharmic teaching, of course, where transsexuality reflects an accrued failing of dharma on the part of the soul, so we merely disagree on that point, on a grounds that it isn't productive to debate.

As for the biological matter, consider that we have demonstrated fertile XY females who give birth to presumptively fertile XY females. Therefore, we can state that while XY karyotyping may be presumptively male, it is not axiomatically male (it does not demonstrate maleness only by itself). Because human features are statistically mediated and men and women will share overlap in almost all traits, what's left at that point? Sexual organs.

So if those are removed, as they are in someone who is completely castrated or in a male-to-female transsexual, then such a person is objectively biologically neutral. They are not male, and not female. Now, in our society we expect people to be either male or female, and how do we actually code people into those categories on a day to day basis? Based on appearance, mannerism, voice, etc. All of these can be mastered by a sincere transsexual woman who puts serious effort into it. So the biologically neutral person, who spiritually identifies as female (but this is unprovable in the physical world, I grant), behaves like a woman, speaks like one, acts like one, and based on appearance looks like one. In that case you have spiritually someone who asserts they are female, socially someone who behaves as females do, someone who possesses the secondary sexual characteristics (appearance, to be simple) of a female, and someone who is biologically neutral, lacking any features which may be axiomatically assigned to one sex or the other.

In that case, it is much more socially disruptive, as well as ethically cruel, to attempt to rely on non-axiomatic features which trend toward maleness, or past history, to code someone against the Nature of the majority of their defined traits.

Now, of course, this renders bankrupt the entire ideology of transgenderists. We can actually see from this exercise that transgenderists, by saying that surgery is unnecessary for one's identity to be valid and that people do not need to put serious effort into passing, that gender itself is a mere category which can be violated at will, are objectively wrong. Because those are exactly the only ways that a transsexual can be a woman! Transgenderists literally argue against the only way that a transsexual woman may be called a woman! This is why there is a fundamental tension between primary transsexuals and the autogynephilia/"secondary transsexual" led "transgender rights" movement. The former is a fundamentally conservative act which upholds social norms; the later is self-defeating.
You're right, my philosophy on this topic isn't congruent with eastern Dharmic teaching; if anything, I'd say it's more in line with eastern Taoist teachings than anything else, but I'm not exactly an expert on such matters.

That aside, again, no system is perfect; nature itself can and will make many mistakes. There are many deviations from the rule you could point to, but that does not change the fact that there is a rule in place. Take me, for example. I'm going to ignore the obvious (my autism), and point out that my little toes on both feet are crooked; they're not shaped right, and the toenails grow upwards, rather than forwards.

Does this throw a wrench into our concept of what those toes should look like? I argue it does not, and it is not a bad thing to admit that something is not as it should be biologically; but in my opinion, this is the crux of both yours and my disagreement with transgenderists, as they see admitting to those flaws is tantamount to denying their worth as people, because it has historically been the excuse used by those who wished to do so. But that approach causes its own problems; as it denies the very concept of being flawed, which we all are in some way. Instead, the important thing is not to view people as their flaws, but as complex beings; perhaps far more so than we can truly comprehend, as we are now.

Edit:
I am a conservative traditionalist adherent of a non-Christian, dharmic religion.

To answer your question: It's not that they reincarnate wrongly: That's impossible. It's that their reincarnation is to teach their soul a lesson about life which is a necessary consequence of their past actions. So transsexuals are women, but they're malformed, imperfect women in this life because of their past spiritual conduct.

(edits finished now).
I am honestly shocked: I was convinced you were Christian.
 
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All that may be well and good, but whether trans folk have a traditional place in society or not is irrelevant to whether two consenting adults are going to get naked and horizontal (or at least want to).

And sexual attraction is an inescapable part of dating. Whether you choose to wait or not, a romantic relationship needs sexual desire to flourish. And sex acts require compatible anatomy. Now people have varying degrees of compatible anatomy, but that depends on the person in question. Pretending to have something you don't and hoping the other party doesn't notice, care, or gets so deeply hooked they accept it is both deeply unfair to all dating prospects and asking for heartbreak to boot.

As rough as the road may be, you're a lot more likely to find happiness if you are up front about what you are than pretending to be what you are not.
 
All that may be well and good, but whether trans folk have a traditional place in society or not is irrelevant to whether two consenting adults are going to get naked and horizontal (or at least want to).

And sexual attraction is an inescapable part of dating. Whether you choose to wait or not, a romantic relationship needs sexual desire to flourish. And sex acts require compatible anatomy. Now people have varying degrees of compatible anatomy, but that depends on the person in question. Pretending to have something you don't and hoping the other party doesn't notice, care, or gets so deeply hooked they accept it is both deeply unfair to all dating prospects and asking for heartbreak to boot.

As rough as the road may be, you're a lot more likely to find happiness if you are up front about what you are than pretending to be what you are not.


Well, you’re perfectly correct in all of that. You might even be putting it more politely than I would.
 
Well, you’re perfectly correct in all of that. You might even be putting it more politely than I would.
Dating is hard enough without self-sabotage.

Chase people who want you, not ones who can't. Getting pissy because you're not compatible does nobody any good.
 
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Dating is hard enough without self-sabotage.

Chase people who want you, not ones who can't. Getting pissy because you're not compatible does nobody any good.

It does society good by helping give another transphobe to target and destroy reputation-wise and possibly financially and socially

Also gives some people more likes on the internet for getting rid of the transphobe and stuff
 
It does society good by helping give another transphobe to target and destroy reputation-wise and possibly financially and socially

Also gives some people more likes on the internet for getting rid of the transphobe and stuff
If you want to be bitter, hateful and emotionally broken the rest of your life, sure.
 
No.

I think interrupting a positive experience because it'll have to end can change that experience into a negative one for both people. And also that breaking things off amicably, which I can't see why you wouldn't want to given that the date was going well prior, will be much easier if you do it at the end of the date instead of in the middle of it.

Also I'm still not sure how my stance of "not wanting to date someone because X isn't phobic, it's tastes" is somehow being called "it's phobic to not want to date someone because X".

Also, if you pause the date at the point the problem arises to inform them that it is a problem and why in a calm manner that's not phobic either. But the scenario presented was "storming out", and maybe it's just that my idea of what "storming out" means is shaping my response but I can't see that as not "phobic".

If you want to have nothing to do with someone you liked prior because of X intrinsic fact, that's phobic, if you either physically cannot or do not wish to have a family with them because of X intrinsic fact and you date to find someone to have a family with then not dating them is not phobic.

But then, I'm also of the opinion that I'll try nearly anything once. So, eh, take it as you will.
Lying about your sex is a damn good reason to leave someone. Presenting yourself as a woman when you are a man is dishonest. Said dishonesty is a 100% legit and 100% not bigotted reason to leave.
 
Of course it is. "Always accuse the opposition of what you are doing." Saul Alinsky

Of course, it always returns to that, doesn't it?

Lying about your sex is a damn good reason to leave someone. Presenting yourself as a woman when you are a man is dishonest. Said dishonesty is a 100% legit and 100% not bigotted reason to leave.

It is a sign of the times is it not, that we even have to affirm this?
 
Of course, it always returns to that, doesn't it?



It is a sign of the times is it not, that we even have to affirm this?
Well at least some of the issue is folks who aren't bigots. Being afraid to look like bigots so they back down. Instead of just saying what they believe. We talk smack about the lefties saying words are violence. At the same time many of our own fearbeing called a bigot. "Your a Nazi/ttransphobe" or whatever should be met with ridicule and laughter. Not by mealy mouth justifications of why you aren't.
 
Well at least some of the issue is folks who aren't bigots. Being afraid to look like bigots so they back down. Instead of just saying what they believe. We talk smack about the lefties saying words are violence. At the same time many of our own fearbeing called a bigot. "Your a Nazi/ttransphobe" or whatever should be met with ridicule and laughter. Not by mealy mouth justifications of why you aren't.
Increasingly not, as the definition of "bigot" moves into the bizarro land of "you didn't do what I want." The power of the words have been squandered, especially as society sees being a jackass as a virtue, not a vice.
 

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