United States US Constitutional Amendment Proposals and Discussion Thread

Atarlost

Well-known member
Possibly the most important thing is to clarify the bill of rights.

The first amendment should clarify that atheism is a religion and may not be favored over any other religion. Either that or we should give up on not having state religions, enumerate what the civic roles of religion, and penalize (with things like ineligibility to be a juror or hold public office) anyone not a member of a religion that fills those roles.

The second amendment should allow the regulation of weapons of indiscriminate and lingering effect (nuclear, radiological, biological weapons, long lasting chemical weapons, and land mines) and long range weapons within their own range of foreign soil (these are without precedent when the amendment was written) but allow no regulation to be applied to any other weapon including explicitly weapon systems like ships of war.

The tenth amendment should be more explicit and should call out the use of the interstate commerce clause or federal grants to encumber the duties of states or rights of citizens as unconstitutional. If enforced as understood by the framers this amendment alone would prevent nearly all abuses by the federal government. The others need clarification only because they are also incorporated against the states.

@Emperor Tippy
I don't think there's any need to have a special budget submitter. It adds nothing because it's not important who delivers budget requests but who writes the budget requests.

The emergency fund is also a very bad idea as described. If it's capped it's okay (but at what quantity?) but if it's uncapped it is essentially requiring the government to continuously do what the Fed does to cause recessions every time it gets nervous about a bubbles and it works at causing recessions. Worse, it's permanent not a temporary measure which creates expectations and perverse incentives. Pulling money from circulation for the ever growing emergency fund is deflationary. If people expect permanent inflation they will save more and invest less because investment is risky and money sat upon grows in value because of deflation. People will have less to spend because they're saving more and because the government has to collect an extra 11% in taxes to put in the emergency fund. This also makes investment riskier because businesses make profit by people spending money. Oh, and a "strong" dollar discourages exports and encourages imports thereby keeping the jobs out of America so people don't have income to spend. All of this compounds itself. You don't get runs on the banks because of the FDIC, but otherwise this is the Great Depression in America. It didn't suck as much as Weimar Hyperinflation, but it sucked more than any depression since.

Oh, also, there's a reason budgets are supposed to originate in the House not the Senate. This is especially important if we repeal the 17th amendment like most people here seem to want.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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@Emperor Tippy
I don't think there's any need to have a special budget submitter. It adds nothing because it's not important who delivers budget requests but who writes the budget requests.

The point is to make a specific individual formally and publicly responsible for the budget and its implementation. "Here is what my department plans on doing next year, here is how much we expect it to cost."

Everyone who gets anywhere in government is very good at avoiding responsibility and accountability. So you make someone responsible, and if the choice is between Congress being responsible or a lone Cabinet official well then it is going to be the official held responsible.

The emergency fund is also a very bad idea as described. If it's capped it's okay (but at what quantity?) but if it's uncapped it is essentially requiring the government to continuously do what the Fed does to cause recessions every time it gets nervous about a bubbles and it works at causing recessions. Worse, it's permanent not a temporary measure which creates expectations and perverse incentives. Pulling money from circulation for the ever growing emergency fund is deflationary. If people expect permanent inflation they will save more and invest less because investment is risky and money sat upon grows in value because of deflation. People will have less to spend because they're saving more and because the government has to collect an extra 11% in taxes to put in the emergency fund. This also makes investment riskier because businesses make profit by people spending money. Oh, and a "strong" dollar discourages exports and encourages imports thereby keeping the jobs out of America so people don't have income to spend. All of this compounds itself. You don't get runs on the banks because of the FDIC, but otherwise this is the Great Depression in America. It didn't suck as much as Weimar Hyperinflation, but it sucked more than any depression since.
The only real reason to keep the current situation is that it gives the US an economic weapons.

The US government raises more than enough money in taxes every year to fund everything it should be doing twice over. And yet it keeps going ever more into debt because zero incentive exists to not go into debt. Worse, that debt isn't being taken on to fund wealth generating programs or critical needs.

The global economic model is also about to collapse. The underlying premise that every economic theory and model is currently built on is an ever increasing population. Or to be more precise, an ever increasing market. That has ceased to be the case.

Every export led economy is going to crater within the next fifteen years simply because there is going to be no one to buy their goods. The US will end up putting massive tariffs on imports simply to keep US employment up as the US-Canada-Mexico bloc is actually a relatively stable economic entity that can, and will, be able to consume pretty much everything it produces and doesn't actually have any great need to import much of anything.

Oh, also, there's a reason budgets are supposed to originate in the House not the Senate. This is especially important if we repeal the 17th amendment like most people here seem to want.
Except Congress has proven itself spectacularly bad at actually originating budgets. So force the Executive Branch to tell Congress how much money it needs and for what, and then let Congress tell the Executive Branch whether they approve or disapprove.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
How about a constitutional amendment to require negligent physicians to pay full childcare costs in wrongful conception cases?

And another constitutional amendment making the US Constitution easier to amend?

And another constitutional amendment that allows naturalized US citizens to run for the US Presidency if they've been US citizens for 35 years or more?

And another constitutional amendment to allow someone else to volunteer to pay your share of child support in your place just so long as they are capable of doing this and get something of value in exchange for this?

And another constitutional amendment absolving males who were victims of rape, including statutory rape, who had their sperm stolen, or whose partners lied about contraception usage from paying child support?
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
How about a constitutional amendment to require negligent physicians to pay full childcare costs in wrongful conception cases?

And another constitutional amendment making the US Constitution easier to amend?

And another constitutional amendment that allows naturalized US citizens to run for the US Presidency if they've been US citizens for 35 years or more?

And another constitutional amendment to allow someone else to volunteer to pay your share of child support in your place just so long as they are capable of doing this and get something of value in exchange for this?

And another constitutional amendment absolving males who were victims of rape, including statutory rape, who had their sperm stolen, or whose partners lied about contraception usage from paying child support?
No, to all of the above.

1. Nope, as always, my stance is that you are responsible for your actions. Nothing is 100% except NOT having sex.
2. Nope, it should be difficult to amend.
3. No need.
4. No. That's state level stuff. If you want that, appeal to your state legislature.
5. No. See #4.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I think an amendment which caps congressional, judicial, and presidential yearly pay to the medium of a middle-class worker in the U.S. would be welcome minus travel expenses.
Good idea, but cap net income instead. Your stock portfolio went up by 1.6 million as a result of suspiciously well-timed trades? The IRS will be glad to have 1.59 million of that. Five hundred grand from lobbyists? Hand that bag of cash over to Uncle Sam.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
No, to all of the above.

1. Nope, as always, my stance is that you are responsible for your actions. Nothing is 100% except NOT having sex.
2. Nope, it should be difficult to amend.
3. No need.
4. No. That's state level stuff. If you want that, appeal to your state legislature.
5. No. See #4.

For #1, we are talking about a sterilization doctor negligently screwing up a sterilization procedure, not having this procedure fail naturally.

I think an amendment which caps congressional, judicial, and presidential yearly pay to the medium of a middle-class worker in the U.S. would be welcome minus travel expenses.

This would simply encourage more corruption, no? I know that in some countries government officials steal if they feel like they don't get paid enough. This happens less in the developed world when politicians can simply sell books, engage in lobbying, et cetera and thus make a lot of money that way, but still, you don't want to push it too much, do you?
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
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This would simply encourage more corruption, no? I know that in some countries government officials steal if they feel like they don't get paid enough. This happens less in the developed world when politicians can simply sell books, engage in lobbying, et cetera and thus make a lot of money that way, but still, you don't want to push it too much, do you?
I don't care, we already have bribery and corruption on a mass scale complete with politicians making millions in insider trade deals, speeches for interest groups or taking straight up bribes from lobbyist, if we are already allowing that and 'bribing' them to stay 'uncorrupt' then they are useless.

I will say this only once..."Politicians do not serve their roles to make money" nor should they, especially in the U.S. where their primary interest should be with their constituency and not lining their own pockets so they can better form an elitist closed circle in Washington.
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
I don't care, we already have bribery and corruption on a mass scale complete with politicians making millions in insider trade deals, making speeches for interest groups or taking straight up bribes from lobbyist, if we are already allowing that and 'bribing' them to stay 'uncorrupt' then they are useless.

I will say this only once..."Politicians do not serve their roles to make money" Nor should they, especially in the U.S. where their primary interest should be with their constituency and not lining their own pockets so they can better form an elitist closed circle in Washington.

Interesting approach. I suppose that you hate it even more for countries where their politicians routinely become millionaires or even multi-millionaires, right?
 

Buba

A total creep
As I keep on saying in threads touching upon this subject - take a good look at what the CSA Constitution changed in relation to the "original".
Line item veto for POTCS, single item legislation ...
 
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bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
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No, to all of the above.

1. Nope, as always, my stance is that you are responsible for your actions. Nothing is 100% except NOT having sex.
2. Nope, it should be difficult to amend.
Here's the problem with keeping the Constitution difficult to amend (at least via Constitutional convention):
It literally prevents you from doing anything that constrains the behavior of any of the three branches in a way that can't be sidestepped through some process within that branch.

You need the Constitutional amendments process as a bludgeon to sort out the problems with the existing operations of the government, otherwise the whole thing becomes the compounding shitfest that's even worse than it is now.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Here's the problem with keeping the Constitution difficult to amend (at least via Constitutional convention):
It literally prevents you from doing anything that constrains the behavior of any of the three branches in a way that can't be sidestepped through some process within that branch.

You need the Constitutional amendments process as a bludgeon to sort out the problems with the existing operations of the government, otherwise the whole thing becomes the compounding shitfest that's even worse than it is now.

If the populace at large lacks the will to stop the excesses of the Federal government through electoral action...

Why would making it easier to amend the Constitution change this?
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Why would making it easier to amend the Constitution change this?
Because, to be brutally honest, the electoral process is not designed to constrain anything in any way.

If the ballots had actual places where you would select policy preferences (fill in the bubble to rank things, whatever), then yes, the electoral process would have some value in that regard. As it is now, it just provides a vague idea of policy preference that doesn't do shit to keep anyone accountable.

Also, the entire point of how the Constitution separated powers was to give the three branches and the states ways to counter each other, and since the American people got scammed into thinking taking away some of the states' power was a good idea, we need rebalance the system. Especially since the legislature sure as fuck won't approve any amendments that would change how they work.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Because, to be brutally honest, the electoral process is not designed to constrain anything in any way.

If the ballots had actual places where you would select policy preferences (fill in the bubble to rank things, whatever), then yes, the electoral process would have some value in that regard. As it is now, it just provides a vague idea of policy preference that doesn't do shit to keep anyone accountable.

Also, the entire point of how the Constitution separated powers was to give the three branches and the states ways to counter each other, and since the American people got scammed into thinking taking away some of the states' power was a good idea, we need rebalance the system. Especially since the legislature sure as fuck won't approve any amendments that would change how they work.

You're still not giving any reason to believe that the problems which have caused the electoral system to partially fail, would not also cause an 'easier constitutional amendments' system to fail.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
You're still not giving any reason to believe that the problems which have caused the electoral system to partially fail, would not also cause an 'easier constitutional amendments' system to fail.
The convention of states model of amending the Constitution has already been proven a failure, by virtue of it never working throughout the history of the US.

If you're not going to go through the legislature for Constitutional amendments, then that leaves the convention of states. And if you make an amendment making that easier, you can also changes the rules to have more safe guards.*

There is literally nothing to lose by giving the states an easier path to amending the Constitution when they currently have nothing.

*This could be literally anything, like a referendum on the wording of the amendment that requires 2/3 of the voters to approve, or whatever.
 

Typhonis

Well-known member
A Constitutional right to protect oneself and ones property. Asset Forfeiture must follow strict guidelines and the burden of proof is place squarely on law enforcement.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
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What specified method for it being easier to amend the constitution do you want then?
I'm not sure, because I'm not a lawyer or Constitutional expert.

If I had to spitball, it'd probably be something like this:
  • Constitutional convention called by 3/5 of state legislatures.
  • Language of proposed amendments has to be approved by representatives of 3/5 of the states.
  • Referendum to have the population vote on the proposed amendments. If 2/3 of the voters in a state approve of the amendment, that counts for 1 approval. If 3/5 of the states approve, the amendment is ratified.
  • If no amendments are approved, there is a second drafting session and voting process. If no amendments are approved after that, there is a two year cooldown period before any subsequent attempt to amend the Constitution.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
Most amendments have been bad either in conception or execution. I'd be more inclined to try to prevent future idiots from screwing things up than to enable them.

1: makes atheism the state religion and locks in vulnerability to memetic warfare as used by the Communists. Hard to blame them since atheism was so rare and memetic warfare hadn't been invented, but this is still the seed of the fall of America. With traditional civic religions suppressed through public education in the name of the establishment clause socialist and green radicalism have taken their place with the full support of government. Turns out religions have civic purposes.
2: explanatory clause undermines the whole thing due to linguistic drift and while the courts have pushed back somewhat recently it is likely future courts will return to using a deliberately misunderstood parenthetical as an excuse to disregard this right.
4: warrant process left dangerously vague. Mostly good, but desperately needs patching.
7: assumes the value of a dollar will never substantially change.
8: so vague as to be useless at best and at worst a tool for the criminal protection lobby.
9: so vague as to be useless.
10: so vague as to be useless.
14: the equal protection clause destroyed state senates. This is directly responsible for the current state of the nation as it allows urban populations to entirely control most state legislatures.
16: direct federal taxation wasn't needed for the war of 1812 or the Civil War or the Spanish American War or to build the Great White Fleet. It just enabled the federal government to afford to wantonly violate the 10th amendment by taking on state responsibilities.
17: destroyed federalism by removing state representation.
18: so obviously bad it was actually fixed.
19: turns out a nurturing sovereign is disastrous for liberty. Without hard protections against nanny statism this hadn't worked.
22: screwed up the balance of power by only term limiting the head of the executive and not anyone ln the legislative branch. May have also contributed to the power imbalance between the bureaucracy and its nominal elected head.
23: allowed civil "servants" to vote for their boss. Because DC is so small they are disproportionately significant. Also, there's no reason anyone has to reside in DC anymore. There may have once been some merit to this, but DC has for some time had a very nice public transit system that reaches into nearby communities in Virginia and Maryland.
26: turns out adulthood has long been pegged at 21 because 18 year olds are kind of irresponsible.
 

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