What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
They are able to engage the Eldar doing thier fuckery and are capable of engaging the very fast Necrons in soace.
Hitting things moving fast isn't hard.

Then again ship size diffrence is huge here.

How big is the biggest fed ship?
its not the speed....its the ability to casually change it by several thousand kilometers per second(and that's being conversative) a second and keep doing that in either gaining or losing it
 

Zachowon

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Too bad for the Imperium Starfleet can launch these weapons at Warp Speed and the Imperium's fleet would hit jack and shit being only speed of light weapons. Warp Strafing is a thing in Star Trek.
How often do they do that?
Because I have never seen it done outside of the new trek movies.
And have they done this on a routine enough basis as seen during major wars they have fought?
Like the Dominon war?
Because the IoM will use thier high end weapons a lot more then other factions
its not the speed....its the ability to casually change it by several thousand kilometers per second(and that's being conversative) a second and keep doing that
And a lot of Imperium weapons don't need a direct hit...
And if push comes to shove the Imperium will break out its big stuff as well. A lot more common.

The thing is the Imperium has tactical Warp drives ad well as the capability to shoot at fast moving objects. Necron ships, Eldar, Dark Eldar.
Fighters, etc etc.

The point is we have to loon at more then raw stats here.
How likely would the Federation start shooting? How often have they NOT tried to talk down opponents?
 

ShadowArxxy

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How often do they do that?
Because I have never seen it done outside of the new trek movies.

"True" warp strafing only exists on the old Starfleet Battles video games, which were *explicitly* a separate continuity. No other Trek content *ever* demonstrated any capability to fire on non-warp targets from warp. Photon (and presumably quantum) torpedoes can be fired while at warp, but they *stay* in warp using a "warp sustainer" drive and they have only been fired at targets also in warp.

The famous, rare, and heavily wanked "Picard Maneuver" involves making a short-range warp jump to evade the targeting of an opponent lacking faster than light sensors, and explicitly requires that the starship drop out of warp before firing its weapons. The fact that this is a "named" maneuver which was specially invented by Captain Picard demonstrates that it is absolutely the opposite of a standard Starfleet tactic, and realistically speaking, must have carried significant risk or technical issues in order to not be obviously used all the time.
 

ShadowArxxy

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Let's not even get into, "Star Trek does not have Gellar Fields or any comparable defense against Warp entities, because those threats don't exist in their home universe."

There are elements of Chaos corruption that are literally memetic cognitohazards. This is why the Inquisition often legitimately must order the mass execution of otherwise innocent citizens or 'lesser' troops who have been exposed to Chaos. With robust freedom of speech and freely available FTL communications, the entire Federation is likely to become unsavably Chaos corrupted before their leadership even realizes there is a problem.
 

Zachowon

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One should mention the Imperium can hit Necron ships which are fast and don't use Warp.
Like, very very very fast.
As a quote goes "can reach the other side of the galaxybin yhe blink of an eye"
 

Zachowon

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Let's not even get into, "Star Trek does not have Gellar Fields or any comparable defense against Warp entities, because those threats don't exist in their home universe."
All the geller field is is a bubble of real space.
Someone already provided starfleet shields do the same based on. Them going to a realm that changes constantly and not being effected
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
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How often do they do that?
Because I have never seen it done outside of the new trek movies.
And have they done this on a routine enough basis as seen during major wars they have fought?
Like the Dominon war?
Because the IoM will use thier high end weapons a lot more then other factions

And a lot of Imperium weapons don't need a direct hit...
And if push comes to shove the Imperium will break out its big stuff as well. A lot more common.

The thing is the Imperium has tactical Warp drives ad well as the capability to shoot at fast moving objects. Necron ships, Eldar, Dark Eldar.
Fighters, etc etc.

The point is we have to loon at more then raw stats here.
How likely would the Federation start shooting? How often have they NOT tried to talk down opponents?
Balance of Terror. The Romulan Torpedo chased the Enterprise at warp.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
Why? They are energy based torpedoes.
Unless the Picard series retconed things Torpedoes have always been depicted as a physical ordinance not unlike Warhammer torpedoes if far more compact.

They’ve blasted the bejesus out of things that aren’t entirely corporeal. The Imperium probably has some rather decent tracking and firing solutions.

Could you provide more details? What precisely did they shoot and how?

However, they have a lot of fixed points in the form of planets to defend and they're not going to shrug and write a world off the way the IoM would.

Depends on how far away said planet is from the jump point. The Imperium Warp engines apparently can't drop to realspace to close to a planet's gravity well without risking destruction. I haven't found out exactly what distance out is, and it likely fluctuates with world to world, but I did find this in my copy of "Defender of the Imperium", a Caiphas Cain Omnibus.

Forewarned by astropathic messages, subsequent convoys were forced to drop out of the warp far further out than they otherwise would have done for fear of suffering a similar fate, running the gauntlet of sustained attacks for two weeks or more rather than the handful of days they would ordinarily be forced to endure.
Page 67

The above is in reference to an Ork warboss who found a way to prematurely pull Imperium ships from the Warp and ambush them while in-route to the planet he's invading forcing them to transition weeks out-bound in order to avoid it. But apparently without Ork interference they were still expected to drop to realspace days away from the planet in question.

Now a later story in the same omnibus does have Chaos warships dropping far closer, seemingly minutes out from the planet, through it's commented on as being " Way too close to {the} gravity well for safety" and attributed to Chaos followers being "loony" and lacking in self-preservation.

They have Lance batteries which are able to fire at the speed of light.
Do you have an example in mind that demonstrates this?

Because browsing through the BFG rulebook it states ordinance such as torpedoes are such difficult targets to hit, requiring the roll of D6 for a lance battery, because of their relative small size and speed despite torpedoes not counting as direct fire weapons. Which is defined as being able to hit your target "almost immediately, even across tens of thousands of kilometers". They also do not maneuver in-rout to their target and are longer in length than the Millennium Falcon and are roughly two-thirds the length of the Jem'hadar rather massive "fighter".

Information for the above taken form pages 18, 27 and 28 of the rulebook.

Well 40k cloaking is diffrent mechanism then ST.

Quotes on how 40k cloaking works/is used?

All of this has to be done after void shields are taken down. Said shields can take a lot, and I mean A LOT.
Considering their numerous other weakness and deficiencies they'd better be able to absorb a lot of punishment. Even assuming the Imperium enjoys a large and decisive advantage ship to ship where an Imperium cruiser can one-shot a starfleet vessel and it takes multiple ships dumping their entire payload of torpedoes and phaser strikes to chip the cruiser away I'm starting to think the Federation would have the edge simply by being able to dictate the battle and pommel the Imperial fleet for up to days at a stretch.

And as far as I know nothing really goes through them.
To quote the BFG rule book again " All ordnance attacks ignore a target's shields and affects the target vessel immediately upon contact." page 27.

So I'm going to have to ask for a specific quote that says nothing can go through a void shield.

"True" warp strafing only exists on the old Starfleet Battles video games
Actually, the TOS episode "Elaine of Troyius" explicitly has a Klingon warship attack the sublight Enterprise while at warp. Not that I'd expect it to be used, it seems to be more a case of early installment weirdness not seen since the original era but it certainly does exist.

There are elements of Chaos corruption that are literally memetic cognitohazards. This is why the Inquisition often legitimately must order the mass execution of otherwise innocent citizens or 'lesser' troops who have been exposed to Chaos. With robust freedom of speech and freely available FTL communications, the entire Federation is likely to become unsavably Chaos corrupted before their leadership even realizes there is a problem.
Considering this is the Federation they'd probably just scan it with a tricorder, determine it's emitting transdimenisional energies and quarantine the squiggily runes, artifact or talisman behind a forcefield to nullify it.
 

Zachowon

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Unless the Picard series retconed things Torpedoes have always been depicted as a physical ordinance not unlike Warhammer torpedoes if far more compact.



Could you provide more details? What precisely did they shoot and how?



Depends on how far away said planet is from the jump point. The Imperium Warp engines apparently can't drop to realspace to close to a planet's gravity well without risking destruction. I haven't found out exactly what distance out is, and it likely fluctuates with world to world, but I did find this in my copy of "Defender of the Imperium", a Caiphas Cain Omnibus.


Page 67

The above is in reference to an Ork warboss who found a way to prematurely pull Imperium ships from the Warp and ambush them while in-route to the planet he's invading forcing them to transition weeks out-bound in order to avoid it. But apparently without Ork interference they were still expected to drop to realspace days away from the planet in question.

Now a later story in the same omnibus does have Chaos warships dropping far closer, seemingly minutes out from the planet, through it's commented on as being " Way too close to {the} gravity well for safety" and attributed to Chaos followers being "loony" and lacking in self-preservation.


Do you have an example in mind that demonstrates this?

Because browsing through the BFG rulebook it states ordinance such as torpedoes are such difficult targets to hit, requiring the roll of D6 for a lance battery, because of their relative small size and speed despite torpedoes not counting as direct fire weapons. Which is defined as being able to hit your target "almost immediately, even across tens of thousands of kilometers". They also do not maneuver in-rout to their target and are longer in length than the Millennium Falcon and are roughly two-thirds the length of the Jem'hadar rather massive "fighter".

Information for the above taken form pages 18, 27 and 28 of the rulebook.



Quotes on how 40k cloaking works/is used?


Considering their numerous other weakness and deficiencies they'd better be able to absorb a lot of punishment. Even assuming the Imperium enjoys a large and decisive advantage ship to ship where an Imperium cruiser can one-shot a starfleet vessel and it takes multiple ships dumping their entire payload of torpedoes and phaser strikes to chip the cruiser away I'm starting to think the Federation would have the edge simply by being able to dictate the battle and pommel the Imperial fleet for up to days at a stretch.


To quote the BFG rule book again " All ordnance attacks ignore a target's shields and affects the target vessel immediately upon contact." page 27.

So I'm going to have to ask for a specific quote that says nothing can go through a void shield.


Actually, the TOS episode "Elaine of Troyius" explicitly has a Klingon warship attack the sublight Enterprise while at warp. Not that I'd expect it to be used, it seems to be more a case of early installment weirdness not seen since the original era but it certainly does exist.


Considering this is the Federation they'd probably just scan it with a tricorder, determine it's emitting transdimenisional energies and quarantine the squiggily runes, artifact or talisman behind a forcefield to nullify it.
In Battle Fleet Gothic, the games, iirc they were not able to go through shields but I could be wrong.

Then again the torpedoes of the Imperium are somewhat diffrent then that of the Federation.

Again I am getting the Lance weapons based of them being lasers and what lexicanum has.

We know Warp can get close to the planet. Very close but it can be dangerous because you don't know what other ships could be close, space debris.

In the most recent Cain book though we have Eldar being so far out, though they don't Warp close and are basically literal sail ships in space bit move fast.
Then again they did meet the forced of the planetary defense.

Iirc the tabletop Gothic is outdated compared to thw game on PC due to updated lore in it
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Depends on how far away said planet is from the jump point. The Imperium Warp engines apparently can't drop to realspace to close to a planet's gravity well without risking destruction. I haven't found out exactly what distance out is, and it likely fluctuates with world to world, but I did find this in my copy of "Defender of the Imperium", a Caiphas Cain Omnibus.

Ciaphas Cain novels typically have a warp jump limit being some two days of realspace travel from the nearest habitable world (that is, from the circumstellar habitable zone). Rogue Trader specifies that they have to be at the edge of the system, or they tear themselves apart.

That being said, stuff varies wildly. The closest "safe" jump I am aware of was 2,3 million kilometers from the nearest habitable planet. But as a general rule, 1 AU or 150 million kilometers is the closest safe distance, with more typical distance being in billions of kilometers.

However, it is a little more complex than that. You see, jumping safely from the point much closer than this is indeed possible, if somewhat tricky. What you need to do is utilize Lagrange points - called in-universe Mandeville points - where gravitational influence is largely neutralized.

Chaos apparently can negotiate with their gods to smooth out Warp and allow them to jump into realspace literally wherever...

Considering this is the Federation they'd probably just scan it with a tricorder, determine it's emitting transdimenisional energies and quarantine the squiggily runes, artifact or talisman behind a forcefield to nullify it.

They are incapable of doing that to certain physical threats, why would they be able to do it to something that literally breaks laws of physics?
 

Battlegrinder

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To quote the BFG rule book again " All ordnance attacks ignore a target's shields and affects the target vessel immediately upon contact." page 27.

So I'm going to have to ask for a specific quote that says nothing can go through a void shield.

Void shields work like that in the rules for BFG, but in normal tabletop 40k they block everything, including physical projectiles and ordinance (and in fact can even save against weapons that would normally bypass all defensive armor or shielding, which is pretty close to "nothing can get through a void shield).

To my knowledge the 40k novels are, as with most things, wildly inconsistent on this and often portrayal void shields as operating either way. This could be because the authors aren't aware of how they "should" work, because how they work was changed at some point and not everyone was up to speed,that different models of void shield have different properties and weaknesses, some combination of the above,or something else entirely.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
anyways i trust we can all agree if the imperium gains impulse tech their navy becomes vastly more scary?
 

S'task

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anyways i trust we can all agree if the imperium gains impulse tech their navy becomes vastly more scary?
No?

See... Trek "Impulse" drives are actually not that impressive. They're literally just a form of fusion rocket tied to Fusion Reactors.

The thing is that Trek cheats. Starships use a warp bubble around their ships to artificially reduce their mass even at sublight speeds. This allows them to increase the performance of the impulse drives considerably, as well as why Trek ships maneuver as they do despite their size. So its not actually Impulse drives that do it, it's Star Trek's Warp Drives once again at work.
 

Battlegrinder

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anyways i trust we can all agree if the imperium gains impulse tech their navy becomes vastly more scary?

Not necessarily. For all we know Imperial plasma drives are far more capable per ton, and it's only the far greater mass of imperial ships (both in absolute terms and in lacking the mass-lightening technology that the federation possess) that means they're more sluggish.

Also, tactical mobility, while nice, doesn't win wars. Strategic mobility does. How long it takes to get ships into a star system matters a lot more than how long it takes them get around that system itself.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Not necessarily. For all we know Imperial plasma drives are far more capable per ton, and it's only the far greater mass of imperial ships (both in absolute terms and in lacking the mass-lightening technology that the federation possess) that means they're more sluggish.

Also, tactical mobility, while nice, doesn't win wars. Strategic mobility does. How long it takes to get ships into a star system matters a lot more than how long it takes them get around that system itself.
was moreso thinking on the tactical scale. especially against the eldar and the necrons
 

Battlegrinder

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was moreso thinking on the tactical scale. especially against the eldar and the necrons

It's my understanding that the issue with Eldar is that they're hard to hit because thier holofields make it hard to get an accurate firing solution, not because they can't be caught.

And Nercons are just across the board superior, catching up in one area still means the imperium is outgunned by tougher enemies.
 

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