AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
What i liked about warhammer was precisely that it was humans vs inhuman monsters and space gods in a battle where the chances of ultimate victory was slim. Bringing back primarchs changes that dynamic.
Warhammer Warhammer General discussion thread: Now with 100% more Space Marines
- Thread starter Battlegrinder
- Start date
What i liked about warhammer was precisely that it was humans vs inhuman monsters and space gods in a battle where the chances of ultimate victory was slim. Bringing back primarchs changes that dynamic.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
All one or two Primarchs popping up can do is stabilise the situation really. Humanity would still be on the backfoot quite badly.
Were it down to me, there'd by no Primaris Marines. There'd be Mark X armour and a whole load of other new toys for the Space Marines to play with, but they'd have been the work of Vulkan instead of Cawl.
To my mind there were four loyalist Primarchs you could somewhat reliably bring back, but it would have to be staggered. Bobby G and the Lion were in stasis and would remain there almost forever without help, whilst the ultimate fates of Leman Russ, Corvus Corax, Vulkan and Jaghatai Khan remained mysteries. If I were to bring back a Primarch, it would be one of them.
Thunderscourge
Emulating Kill em All Tomino in all Games
As said before me, there are some actual good books and some good ideas within the Horus Heresy series, but they are outweighed by a deluge of awful writing and pointless stories that do little to add to the setting.
Perhaps this is a hot take, but I feel that the original three Horus Heresy books were not the great novels people have often claimed them to be: they rushed the conflict out and made it occur far faster than it should have. We needed an actual Great Crusade series setting the stage before we get to the most critical moment in the Imperium's history.
Instead we enter the stage in like season 2 or 3 of Game of Thrones and only get small pieces of season 1 randomly scattered across novels afterwards, making the setup quite random and spread out as a bunch of different writers try grappling with the massive setting they now had to set up while also progressing the plot. As a result we get lots of characters or ideas that go nowhere, writers doing their own thing that others ignore (Perpetuals for example), and instead of having a consistent throughline carrying the books from one to another it is a chaotic mess that makes even hardcore fans not always certain where some stuff fits together.
GW/Black Library handled the Horus Heresy like Lucasfilm handled the Sequel Trilogy, not bothering to create an actual gameplan for its writers to follow, not binding together the visions of their writing staff leading to contradicting narratives, and allowing at times malicious actions towards the characters/factions/setting to be carried out at the expense of those who care.
Thunderscourge
Emulating Kill em All Tomino in all Games
No, that would be awful. He has proven himself to be incapable of writing them and should be trusted with nothing. He is why we even have the awful Perpetual plotline that gave us the likes of Erda and which ruined Ollanius by making him super immortal being instead of a lone Guardsman who was brave enough to face down Horus.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Abnett is a talented writer, as evidenced by his Gaunt’s Ghosts novels, but he really seemed to lose his way with the Horus Heresy series.
Could be worse though. Dembski-Bowden could have been given more Emperor centric books, when as I understand only Graham McNeil really seems to understand the Emperor’s character (he gets the “Greek Tragedy” of it all whilst it sails over everyone else’s head).
StormEagle
Well-known member
Bowden can write and has written good stories before. The problem is that he’s a massive chaos fan and that fact effects his writing when he’s given a loyalist project in the Heresy era.
GW and the Black Library just aren’t good at playing to their authors strengths, when you get right down to it.
They honestly need to sit down and make sense of the Heresy era books. Get all their authors in the same room and hammer out a canon that makes sense.
As is, there’s just to many different characters interpreted through the lense of to many different authors. Which makes certain characters just come off as schizophrenic or stupid. Sometimes both.
I honestly think Perturabo and Fulgrim suffer the most from that particular problem.
Other characters also really needed to be expanded upon. Ferrus Manus, Mortarion, and Jaghatai being the ones that come immediately to mind.
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Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong. Bowden is the go to writer for Chaos (His Night Lords Omnibus was spectacular), although he could do loyalists quite well once (Hellsreach is so good). Just keep him away from the Emperor.
But further to your point, yes you are right. The writers were not all sat down in a room and made to hash out a canon to follow, which would have prevented a great deal of problems.
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Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Could be unpopular, and taking a risk, but were it down to me I think I might have entrusted Ollanius Pius to Sandy Mitchell.
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Sandy Mitchell would have done it well I think.
He knows how ti have that good outlook on it
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
I don't really understand why some retard wanted to make female custodes and why others still want female Space Marines. It's like no one ever wants to acknowledge that the Adeptus Sororitas exist.
Yup, I'll just say it again, "Can we please get more quality fluff for the female factions that already exist instead of pushing it into factions that are historically all male? Or is this just another example where the Trans....people (men with boobs) push the actual women out of their own organizations?"
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
To take it from you. Thats how they conquer cultural territory..they make it gay or stick women in it.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
Because the sisters of battle are religious in a way that marines and custodians aren't, so the rainbow tards don't even want to look at them. And because GW doesn't lift them up the way it does for basically every other faction.
For a in-lore faction that's supposed to be able to handle a marine chapter 1 major order to a chapter, they don't get stories or an army that can actually manage such a thing.
So they just come off as nun fetish bait or religious karens. Instead of women just as badass as the marines with a fraction of the bullshit going into them.
That's my thinking.
If GW put effort into factions with heavy female presence, the elf factions, the guard, the inquisition, sisters of battle, and raising the profile of women in those factions, they'd actually achieve increasing their audience without losing the hardcore fans who actually spend money.
For your last part there. The SoB have gotten a lot more lore lately and are getting more.
The Guard has TONS of females in its lore. Whole books with various females.
Inquisition has multiple famous females.
The eldar...you are right about
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
GW needs to understand the reality is that outside of a few exceptional cases this hobby will always be 99% men. If they want something that appeals to women then look at all of the smut and vampire romance crap.
Because they don't give a flying fuck about merely checking the women box.
One angle is that they want women in the "flagship" part of 40k which are the Space Marines.
The other even more likely angle is that they don't even want women in the sense any of the female guard, SoB, SoS, assassins, inquisitors, psykers etc are. They want butch weirdo ugly women that make meme East German athletes look good, androgynous queer heshe stuff, which is what the hypothetical female space marines would probably look a lot like.
They want Abby from TLOU2 on warp steroids, except putting that character in a Slaanesh army where it belongs would send a mixed message.
Virtue signalling merely for women is so 2014.
Virtue signalling for the gender benders is the real progressive deal now.
We all know pushing this sort of stuff is on the agenda of the progressives.
Obviously none of the more sensible and lore fitting female characters scratch that itch.
Well there are also many female assassins if that was the issue...
Everyone knows that selling female characters to a male audience is fucking easy, ask Japan.
But that takes a will to make actually sellable characters, while the people who demand female characters in this context insist on female (if not worse, "female") characters with several caveats that make them usually rather unsellable.
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It's 2024 and progressives are demanding it, so make your guess...
If GW wanted to make an extra buck or few millions they could start trying to compete with Japan for the spicier part of the market with the assassins, the dark eldar, various gangers and so on, if they wanted to be a bit more tasteful they could also bring up more noblewomen with 40k's gothic inspired style (being nobles they have the excuse of being inherently important enough to bring up, and it would serve as good cosplayer bait speaking of women who may be interested in 40k), but we both know they would prefer not to do that, this is about virtue signalling to a particular segment of the audience who even if it's interested in "female representation" is not so much interested in the kind of females the typical man would find attractive, and who care more about their out of 40k politics being represented in the lore than about 40k lore.