Vyor
My influence grows!
These articles come out literally every election season and it's never been true.
United States 2024: United States Senate Dicussion Thread
- Thread starter 49ersfootball
- Start date
These articles come out literally every election season and it's never been true.
49ersfootball
Well-known member
I've got Cruz winning by double digits (56% to 41%).
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Being against the freedom to travel freely between states is literally as un-American as it gets. For shame!
Vetrom
war
I'm sure all the enlightened designers of these 15 mimute cities will do a wonderful job of keeping freedom of association and self-determination in mind (i think thats where i lump freedom of travel?) Anyways, im pressing X to doubt.
The concept of a 15 minute city isn't that you're not allowed to travel outside of that radius, it's that the city planning should be done such that residents can accomplish all of their everyday errands and things within a 15-minute walk of their home. It's basically just a less vague terminology for a "walking city", because different people have different ideas how far/long they're comfortable walking.
mrttao
Well-known member
Wrong. that is EXACTLY the concept of it.
It is literally a concentration camp.
That is the lie the oligarchs push to try to convince the rubes into buying into it.
Vyor
My influence grows!
So do you too take cyanide with your koolaid?
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
You could theoretically travel outside your 15 minute walk bubble, but it's designed to keep everything you do within the bubble. Work, play, food, shelter.
That would keep the vast overwhelming majority of people in their bubble.
Of those, the most important is work. If you don't have to travel an hour a day to get to work and another hour back, that's two more hours you could actually be working! Sure as fuck the corpos will pull shit like that.
And there are people who will do just that.
Self-corralled. Controlling what we see. And since you don't own your own form of transportation except maybe a bicycle, your ability to travel can easily be shut down, especially long distance travel.
A fifteen minute city is basically a chicken coop for humans. And if you throw in authorized travel, it's a mobile chicken coop.
It's not a city where you can walk, it's a city designed to force you to walk.
That would keep the vast overwhelming majority of people in their bubble.
Of those, the most important is work. If you don't have to travel an hour a day to get to work and another hour back, that's two more hours you could actually be working! Sure as fuck the corpos will pull shit like that.
And there are people who will do just that.
Self-corralled. Controlling what we see. And since you don't own your own form of transportation except maybe a bicycle, your ability to travel can easily be shut down, especially long distance travel.
A fifteen minute city is basically a chicken coop for humans. And if you throw in authorized travel, it's a mobile chicken coop.
It's not a city where you can walk, it's a city designed to force you to walk.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Now I'm suddenly reminded of My Dinner With Andre.
"New York is the new model for the new concentration camp. Where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves, and the inmates are the guards and they have this pride in this thing they've built. They've built their own prison, so they exist in a state of schizophrenia. They're both guards and prisoners, and as a result, they no longer have -- having been lobotomized -- the capacity to leave the prison they've made... or to even see it as a prison."
Of course some might complain about how that film was made by a bunch of left-wingers, but boy, some ideas presented there turned out to be scarily prophetic! The described "schizophrenia" is also causing the misunderstanding in this discussion, here in the thread. It's not that the city has a fence you can't cross. It's that it's designed to imprison your mind.
"New York is the new model for the new concentration camp. Where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves, and the inmates are the guards and they have this pride in this thing they've built. They've built their own prison, so they exist in a state of schizophrenia. They're both guards and prisoners, and as a result, they no longer have -- having been lobotomized -- the capacity to leave the prison they've made... or to even see it as a prison."
Of course some might complain about how that film was made by a bunch of left-wingers, but boy, some ideas presented there turned out to be scarily prophetic! The described "schizophrenia" is also causing the misunderstanding in this discussion, here in the thread. It's not that the city has a fence you can't cross. It's that it's designed to imprison your mind.
mrttao
Well-known member
This is the biggest issue.
In china when your social credit score dips, the govt blocks your access to public transport.
The commoner does not own cars in the CCP.
So now they are limited to how far they can walk.
Rather than imprisoning people with chains, you imprison them with terrain.
How far can a prisoner walk a day on his own two feet?
And even if you do walk... what will you eat? where will you sleep? after all, the govt that blocked your access to public transport for wrongthink also froze your bank account.
The war on fossil fuels is in large part fueled by that.
Notice how germany, paragon of climate change. Has shut down the nuclear power plants to use coal power plants as well.
How australia wants to chop down forests to build windmills.
The oligarchs use the climate meme to take away your essential tools. You will own nothing and you will not complain or else.
Getting rid of the private car is essential for their plans to imprison you.
There is massive blowback against getting rid of privately owned vehicles... which is why they need a 15 minute city. with those, the residents will not need a car. it is not a necessity. so they will make gas very expensive and the residents will sell their car. it is a luxury they didn't need and the public transport is really nice.
oh look, suddenly car ownership dipped massively. makes it a lot easier to just ban private ownership of cars entirely. only oligarchs can own cars now.
Now you are a prisoner.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
A contained shelter with food, play, and work? Where all your needs and most of your wants are fulfilled? And all of that is easily accessed? And someone else has near total control of getting in and out? Where someone can harvest the fruits of your labor quickly and easily? Where it's super easy to set up a panopticon?
A place you won't ever want to leave. A place where you can be conditioned to not leave, through basic propaganda about how cold and scary the outside is and how wonderful and warm it is inside. A place where the security procedures also condition you to not leave by being arduous and tedious and a pain in the ass. A place where the physical security makes leaving through any unapproved route basically impossible.
Like the starting Vault in Fallout 3? That's a 15 minute town right there.
Yeah. That's a chicken coop. A chicken coop is a chicken arcology.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
no it is further than 15 minutes walk away.
Vyor
My influence grows!
Chicken coops are not even close to an arcology.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
Chicken coops are combining architecture and ecology for chickens. It is exactly a very basic, very simple arcology. It is a matter of scale, complexity, and species to get you to a human grade urban arcology.
Literally combining everything a chicken would have in the wild into one building. Shelter, structure, protection, water, food, recreation, procreation. Yeah. Architecture and Ecology as one.
That's an arcology.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
Yes, but also no.
Military bases are certainly designed to keep you on them as much as keep people out. It also has a populace trained for violence. An aggressive populace, that is very cognizant of what it happening to it. (I certainly was when I was in, as were everyone I talked to) Something a 15-minute city would oppose.
Did you include PT? There's an hour minimum right there.
Did you include the fact that you're on call 24/7?
Uniform and equipment maintenance? You aren't just doing casual laundry for your work clothes (including your dress uniforms) and at least some other gear being maintained is on you.
How about the frequency in which you go to the field for training where you work in excess of 8 hours a day? That varies wildly from unit to unit. Some units will spend 1/3 of a year in the field, and some will spend maybe a month total spread out across the whole year.
How about watch? It's much worse in the Navy, because there are so many watch stations it's basically impossible to not pull numerous watch shifts. But it happens with everyone.
You don't work an 8 hour 9-5 shift in the military. You just don't notice that you live a whole lifestyle that integrates a bunch of your work into your life.
It's very much like the goal of 15-minute cities. To integrate not just the architecture and the ecology, but the lifestyle. To basically create a prison of your mind that keeps you in line.
Vyor
My influence grows!
By that logic houses are an arcology because you can have food delivered.
I am in the military.
It really isn't designed to keep us in, but it encourages it due to people like Barracks living soldiers.
To allow them to not have to buy things such as cars and the like.
Shuttles, walking, etc.
hour to hour and a half, varies by dau.
eh, not really. Only certain jobs and ranks are and even then, most units have a no messaging unless emergency past 1800.
Outside of our dress uniforms, we just use laundry mats that are within the barracks for laundry unless you don't live in the barracks...
And I don't maintain the humve. That is what the mechanics do.
My current unit spends zero.
And they have to give RnR break for soldiers once they get back from the trainings. Which means plenty of days off to make up for it.
Outside of deployment? You have MAX three things you get on once in awhile.
SD, at various levels, and then CQ. This is Army.
He'll, some branches almost got rid of it entirely and some duty stations only do 12 hours with civilians doing the rest
Eh, not really. A lot of the military works like this, it is like a normal job. We just have extra rules
Wait so...we agree that it is like a 15 minute city?
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
You control your house. You wouldn't own anything meaningful in a fifteen minute city, least of all your place of living. Your food availability. Any of it. Like a farmer controls a chicken coop.
The point of I'm really trying to get at, is that someone else controls you through the arcology of where you live. A fifteen minute city is designed to do that from the ground up. Sometimes from functional necessity, ie a space station, or sometimes because the rich and powerful want to flex their rich and powerful muscles like in a 15-minute city.
Something like a space station, 15-minute city, or seafloor arcology is basically a human chicken coop where the corporation or government come along and harvest your labor, like a farmer does eggs. Like a chicken coop encouraging chickens to lay in specific spots for ease of harvest, a 15 minute city encourages you to do your work (edit: and live) in specific spots for ease of harvest.
An arcology is ripe for abuses. Especially when it's in a place where incredibly basic things like oxygen and breathable air is controlled by other things.
And if you think that corpos or governments aren't going to take advantage, your head is in the sand.
That's great, thank you for your service. And I was in the military. I literally wrote that earlier too.
So I understand this pretty well. I find it difficult to believe that that much has changed since I got out ten years ago.
That's still more than a 9 to 5. As it's required and not something that you do by choice.
You apparently don't understand what 'on call' means. Emergency messaging and having to respond is being on call, even if the response is just a 'roger.' Just because you aren't likely to be called unless certain jobs or ranks doesn't mean you aren't on call.
Lifestyle, integrated, don't think about it, just normal.
So, you don't make sure your name tapes are not scrunched up? You don't make sure that your patches are placed right? You don't get rid of fly away threads? You don't keep your boots clean? Replace the velcro or the top when the velcro goes, your choice?
These were things I had to do when I had to wear shitty ACUs. Bare minimum bullshit, but it had to be done and rechecked.
Okay, sure not the humvee that gets handled by a specific section as part of their job, I'll even throw weapon maintenance and things like NVGs back into the cage and say those only get maintained on special occasions because training.
I'll even exclude battle rattle cause most if not all of that is probably kept in the cage and issued for training. That's what we did.
Do you not have wet weather gear? Cold weather gear? Backpacks, 15 day and 3 day? Smaller miscellaneous gear like your issued multi-tool or a personal knife? Your pens? Pencils? Notebooks?
'Be in the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform, with something to write on, and something to write with.'
That was the standard base expectations my sergeants had for me, anything extra would be discussed.
Your room? Do you keep it clean, tidy? With everything lined up the way it's supposed to be? Rotate through who cleans the hallways, stairways, and day room?
Or do you have maids for that? I did have one training duty station where we had maids. It was fucking surreal.
I find it so baffling that so much has changed in ten years. We'd get like a day if we were lucky, otherwise it'd be lightwork for a day or two then back to the grind if the training was light and short.
And you never have to do any field training? No rifle training, no grenade training, no pistol? No bivouac? No land nav? Nothing?
Wow.
Thank God for the Navy. Someone will be able to protect our country, at least.
Edit: You do less training than the reserves.
I find it so baffling the so much has changed in ten years and why the fuck are civilians protecting military bases?
Yes, yes really. You still have a lot of little shit that eats up the day that's for work and part of work that's just... integrated really well so you don't think about it.
Yes. That was the 'yes' part of 'yes but no.'
It's a self contained area designed to keep you in your bubble. Other than going to the titty bar or a specific restaurant or some other specific event/location that simply could not be contained within that bubble ie a zoo, I never saw a reason to leave the base. Trapped by my own mind as it were.
The no part was thus: Being in the military is or more than just some 9-5 job. Even your watered down bitch baby version, that's apparently watered down from my watered down bitch baby version of only a decade since I got out.
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