United States 2nd Amendment Legal Cases and Law Discussion

bullethead

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Can't wait for the complete version to be posted:
Article:
We just got the State's Benitez-ordered spreadsheet for Duncan.

....ya.

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Article:
This thing is 130 pages long, then they do another 100 pages for 1889-20th century.

So it's gonna be funny when they complain on appeal that they didn't have enough time.


All the lawyers in the Benitez cases are going to be commenting on this spreadsheet, and it's going to be a gloriously huge clusterfuck.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Excellent reminder of the *totally* racist history of gun control in the US. . . remind us which side of history we're on again?

Well for us it isn't the political party that started a war to preserve slavery. That created the kkk that invented Jim Crow and only desegregated when the other party sent in the literal airborne to stop it.

That said it must be nice to be able to steal the credit for someone else's work and then blame them for all of your dirty laundry.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
This question isn't very clear. Could you specify what you mean by this?

I mean that I feel the racist history of gun control in the United States means that the pro-gun side (which I am on) has a moral high ground that is often overlooked. Especially considering it goes all the way from some of the very earliest gun control laws in U.S. history, to ones still very much in effect in the modern era.

Southern states

Not what I am talking about in the slightest.
 
5th Circuit strikes down Federal Bump Stock Ban

bullethead

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Let's get ready for a SCOTUS rumble!
Article:
BREAKING: Cargill v. Garland (5th Circuit): En banc Fifth Circuit strikes down the federal bump stock ban, saying it violates the Administrative Procedure Act.

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Article:
"The definition of 'machinegun' as set forth in the National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act does not apply to bump stocks. And if there were any doubt as to this conclusion, we conclude that the statutory definition is ambiguous, at the very least."

Article:
"The rule of lenity therefore compels us to construe the statute in Cargill's favor. Either way, we must REVERSE."
 
Gun Law Spreadsheets: Duncan & Rhode

bullethead

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Article:
Here we go!



The State’s spreadsheets range from the irrelevant, e.g. laws prohibiting concealed carry (Duncan is about possession/acquisition of magazines) to the outrageous, with them citing racist laws repeatedly.


If you just want the dunking on the anti-gun position, go to the sheets with Plantiff in the name. They contain all the smackdowns.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
You know, reading through all theses laws it doesn't seem like there any justification for the NFA or the AWB. Weird.
The NFA was only supported on the item of sawed-off shotguns, due to SCOTUS determining the short barreled shotty had no military purpose, so not protected by the 2nd amendment. ( Miller vs USA ). SCOTUS then ignored that the NFA TAXED SBR/Automatic weapons/suppressors.
The tax stamp was $200 in 1930’s comparable >10% of median income at the time.

Also, SCOTUS sat on the Miller case when there was no defendant or lawyer for the defendant. Argued in absentia which alone invalidates the validity.

I misspoke Millers Lawyer sent a letter to the court from Arkansas saying “No one is paying me so I will not be there to represent, I trust the government will handle things”. (paraphrased)

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/puckett/millershotgun.pdf


Edit: So reading the older laws, lots of taxes to keep the poor from owning weapons. $1 per knife or gun when 30 cents a day was a great wage?

$300-$500 per weapon in today’s dollars.
 
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49ersfootball

Well-known member
Article:
Here we go!



The State’s spreadsheets range from the irrelevant, e.g. laws prohibiting concealed carry (Duncan is about possession/acquisition of magazines) to the outrageous, with them citing racist laws repeatedly.


If you just want the dunking on the anti-gun position, go to the sheets with Plantiff in the name. They contain all the smackdowns.
Isn't that a middle finger to the gun control law in NY St ? 🤔
 

bullethead

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i'm half considering getting a new receiver and taking the opportunity to bypass the $200 fee.
how nuts am i?
Very, because you have to have possession of the receiver before the rule gets finalized in the federal register.

I dunno if your local gun stores have stripped/complete pistol lowers lying around, so that's a high risk play.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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i just found out about a new lawsuit.

Wyoming Man Sues For Right To Make His Own M16 Machine Gun - Cowboy State Daily

god speed, you crazy bastard.

It's not the time for that challenge yet. The last thing that you should really want is SCOTUS (and to a lesser extent an appeals court) hearing a flat out challenge to the machine gun registry at this time. Way too much chance of getting bad precedent out of it.

First you want one of the challenges to magazine and "assault' rifle" bans to make its way through the courts. If one of those gets before SCOTUS, there are very likely at least five votes to toss the ban and it is very likely that you get an opinion that buttresses Bruen and lays the ground work for a broader challenge to the NFA.

Then, after you have that opinion you challenge the machine gun registry being closed. Because machine guns can be legally owned and transferred by civilians, the government can't credibly argue in favor of a blanket ban on machine guns as being a thing. Any Bruen test will also find against a closed registry.

But a direct challenge to the closed registry right now, before those other cases wind their way through the courts and create additional opinions to buttress what's already there? Way too much chance that you get the machine gun ban upheld.

If you want to challenge the NFA, your better challenge is a direct challenge to SBR restrictions. Taxing the exercise of a right and acting as a gatekeeper for a right is fairly hard to justify. Especially when you get into the legislative history, with Congress explicitly passing the law to de facto ban weapons it didn't like.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
Except the Miller case was “legal” because sawed-off shotgun was deemed not military useful, which allowed the tax to stay in place. While the court ignored the military useful automatic weapon tax and SBR tax.

Funny that.
 

Emperor Tippy

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Except the Miller case was “legal” because sawed-off shotgun was deemed not military useful, which allowed the tax to stay in place. While the court ignored the military useful automatic weapon tax and SBR tax.

Funny that.
And a direct challenge to Miller is something that should be done. How that case was handled is utterly indefensible under modern jurisprudence. One side not being represented by a lawyer and explicitly saying that they trust the government to present both sides makes it a farcical case.

I would say challenge the NFA with regards to suppressors but that runs into the thorny issue of whether or not they count as "arms". If they aren't then the 2nd Amendment doesn't cover them and interstate commerce effectively justifies their treatment (regardless of how stupid that treatment is).

The SBR restrictions are a direct challenge to Miller, which gives justification for SCOTUS to take the case, are squarely covered under the 2nd, and are effectively impossible to justify given pragmatic realities.

It's also, politically speaking, a lot easier for the court to do than anything touching on machine guns would be.

Honestly, SCOTUS is really unlikely to take a direct challenge to the machine gun registry being closed at the moment. They will want a more solid body of cases to help justify it, for more time to pass, and probably for a circuit split on the issue.

If you go after SBR's then the existence of Miller argues strongly in favor of SCOTUS taking the case and you are likely to get an opinion that the government can't restrict entire categories of firearms in what is essentially an arbitrary and capricious manner. Get that opinion and it gets a lot easier to rule that the closed registry is just such an arbitrary and capricious restriction.
 

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