A thread for the Civilized Discussion and Debate on Monarchy

The Queen does wield vastly more power over the UK than most people realize, however, and a significant amount of effort is expended on making it seem as if the Royal Family isn't exercising it.

There was some consternation when Downing Street lost a lawsuit and previously secret papers revealed how many laws required Royal Consent before they could be passed. Liberals were quite upset and raged at how undemocratic it was for the Royal Family to still exercise so much power, that is power that wasn't in their own hands.


"This is opening the eyes of those who believe the Queen only has a ceremonial role," said Andrew George, Liberal Democrat MP for St Ives, which includes land owned by the Duchy of Cornwall, the Prince of Wales' hereditary estate.

"It shows the royals are playing an active role in the democratic process and we need greater transparency in parliament so we can be fully appraised of whether these powers of influence and veto are really appropriate. At any stage this issue could come up and surprise us and we could find parliament is less powerful than we thought it was."
 
No, she doesn't. Parliament removed that power decades ago. Hell, Parliament has practically all the power now, they removed the other two branches (the Lords and the Royals) as political entities.
No, they did not remove that power. VERY, VERY recently the PM requested of her to Dissolve Parliament. Of course Now it has to be justified, and go through a court of Judges, but she can do it.
 
No, they did not remove that power. VERY, VERY recently the PM requested of her to Dissolve Parliament. Of course Now it has to be justified, and go through a court of Judges, but she can do it.
Queen Elizabeth II's role in the Commonwealth is to be the one who says "here's who is running the country".

Unlike the shitshow that was our last presidential election all she has to do is say "Yea" or "Nay" and she will be listened to and obeyed.

The PM asking her to dissolve parliament is the PM saying "we need a new government" and asking her to approve of the new one.
 
No, they did not remove that power. VERY, VERY recently the PM requested of her to Dissolve Parliament. Of course Now it has to be justified, and go through a court of Judges, but she can do it.
Nope, Parliament had made a law that says that the queen can't dissolve Parliament. At least last I've checked.
 
I don’t think we need to delve into the intricacies of British law to say that the sort of monarchy that exists in the UK isn’t what monarchies in this thread want. If there is some bit of arcane law that allowed to queen to the exercise huge amounts of power, it only exists because it isn’t used and if it were, we would quickly see those laws changed.
 
Nope, Parliament had made a law that says that the queen can't dissolve Parliament. At least last I've checked.
You are mistaken. The Queen dissolved the Parliament as recently as 2019.


She also retains the power to Prorogue (That is, prevent Parliament from meeting) when she wishes, which she also did in 2019, to considerable controversy as this was instrumental in helping along Brexit.


I suspect you're thinking of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act of 2011, but that did not limit the monarch but rather the Prime Minister.

 
You are mistaken. The Queen dissolved the Parliament as recently as 2019.


She also retains the power to Prorogue (That is, prevent Parliament from meeting) when she wishes, which she also did in 2019, to considerable controversy as this was instrumental in helping along Brexit.


I suspect you're thinking of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act of 2011, but that did not limit the monarch but rather the Prime Minister.

That's odd because I distinctly remember Parliament instituting a law that basically gutted her ability to dissolve Parliament to the point that it's effectively useless. Something about the House of Windsor (aka the monarchy) can't remove those from the House of Commons from their seats...
 
That's odd because I distinctly remember Parliament instituting a law that basically gutted her ability to dissolve Parliament to the point that it's effectively useless. Something about the House of Windsor (aka the monarchy) can't remove those from the House of Commons from their seats...
You're likely thinking of individuals. Her Majesty can't say "I don't like you, get out". There is a law somewhere about that, but for the love of god I cannot remember it's name.
 
You're likely thinking of individuals. Her Majesty can't say "I don't like you, get out". There is a law somewhere about that, but for the love of god I cannot remember it's name.
IIRC an MP is also not allowed resign their seat. Getting rid of an unwanted MP pretty much requires asking the Queen to give said MP a job or title which disqualifies them from the Commons.
 
Thing is, it sounds like the continuation of the rest of the laws that gutted both the House of Lords and House of Windsor (aka the monarchy) and reinvesting their power into the House of Commons. :cautious:
 
Thing is, it sounds like the continuation of the rest of the laws that gutted both the House of Lords and House of Windsor (aka the monarchy) and reinvesting their power into the House of Commons. :cautious:
Yeah, but it's understandable, seeing as the British Nobility class was practically gutted, with most of the families dying off before the 1950's. Personally I feel as if the King should have begun giving war Heroes with proper knowledge seats on the House of Lords and ennobling them. But back then thinking wasn't a whole lot of a thing, and we saw what that led up to.
 
One of the odder things, but an advantage for monarchies, is that the monarch is generally apolitical. Yes, I realize that sounds like an oxymoron, but it's true. Monarchs normally leave the political parties and shenanigans to the lords under them while the monarch is above such things. You won't find the Queen of England picking between the Tories and Labor, f'rex, the monarch represents all the people and not just the ones who voted for them.
That's because she has no power. If the Queen actually tried to govern, she definitely would be favoring one faction over another, and would inevitably attract rancor from whatever the other side is. Political parties are just a type of faction, and factions exist in every type of government out there. Even totalitarian states like the Nazis and Stalinist Russia were rife with factionalism.

As for your assertion that Brunei is insignificant...
Brunei's significance comes from being a petrostate, this is obviously not something a real country can learn anything from.

The PM asking her to dissolve parliament is the PM saying "we need a new government" and asking her to approve of the new one.
We've seen this with dead monarchies all the time. Dong Zhuo. Cao Cao. The shoguns. Ricimer. All of these people formally were deferential to their sovereign, and requested the sovereign's permission to do many things. But everyone knew who held the real power.
 
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That's because she has no power. If the Queen actually tried to govern, she definitely would be favoring one faction over another, and would inevitably attract rancor from whatever the other side is. Political parties are just a type of faction, and factions exist in every type of government out there. Even totalitarian states like the Nazis and Stalinist Russia were rife with factionalism.
Except Baathist Iraq, that was a good way to die...
 
That's because she has no power. If the Queen actually tried to govern, she definitely would be favoring one faction over another, and would inevitably attract rancor from whatever the other side is. Political parties are just a type of faction, and factions exist in every type of government out there. Even totalitarian states like the Nazis and Stalinist Russia were rife with factionalism.
And yet Brexit may well have failed had she not Prorogued Parliament at a critical moment. What a lack of power that was.

Brunei's significance comes from being a petrostate, this is obviously not something a real country can learn anything from.
Pretty much all nation's significance comes from their available resources. If the US government had only the land area and natural resources of Costa Rica do you think it would be the global hegemon still?
 
Pretty much all nation's significance comes from their available resources. If the US government had only the land area and natural resources of Costa Rica do you think it would be the global hegemon still?

And it takes a competent government to capitalise on that. Given Brunei's size and wealth, it's a regional powerhouse that can punch well above its weight. Despite having just a bit more than half the GDP of a western nation like Iceland, Brunei could chew them up and spit them out militarily speaking.

That's something else to take into consideration. Monarchies seem to take national defence far more seriously than most democracies.
 
And it takes a competent government to capitalise on that. Given Brunei's size and wealth, it's a regional powerhouse that can punch well above its weight. Despite having just a bit more than half the GDP of a western nation like Iceland, Brunei could chew them up and spit them out militarily speaking.

That's something else to take into consideration. Monarchies seem to take national defence far more seriously than most democracies.
Most monarchies existed before MAD was a thing, and had issues with things like paying Danegelds to stave off raiders or paying Jannisaries to keep themselves from being palace-coup'd.

All the defensive/military 'benefits' of monarchies went out the window when the Trinity test was successful.
 
Most monarchies existed before MAD was a thing, and had issues with things like paying Danegelds to stave off raiders or paying Jannisaries to keep themselves from being palace-coup'd.

All the defensive/military 'benefits' of monarchies went out the window when the Trinity test was successful.

MAD is the most noble and beneficial bluff in human history, but a bluff nonetheless. Simply put, it is better to fight and lose a conventional war than win a nuclear war. One day a country will call its opponent's bluff and roll the troops in. The opponent, not being suicidal, won't push the big red button, and now we are back to conventional warfare which actually requires boots on the ground. IE, we'll have gone back to how things have been since Sumer and Akkad.
 
MAD is the most noble and beneficial bluff in human history, but a bluff nonetheless. Simply put, it is better to fight and lose a conventional war than win a nuclear war. One day a country will call its opponent's bluff and roll the troops in. The opponent, not being suicidal, won't push the big red button, and now we are back to conventional warfare which actually requires boots on the ground. IE, we'll have gone back to how things have been since Sumer and Akkad.

There are some people crazy enough to push that button. How long it will be until that happens?

I don't know; we might not see it before the second coming. Either way, like all types of conflict where bluffing is a useful tool, the fact that it might not be a bluff is key to it being possible for a bluff to work.
 

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