African-American interests in a dialectical context with some discussion about protests

[HistoryMinor]

I think HM wants them staying at home, taking care of the kids, whilst daddy goes off to work



The average woman's breasts are too small to be considered fat by me

I AWAIT THE DAY WHEN WE REACH THIS REALITY

I don't want them going to war with highly armed thugs and literal fucking tanks, you psychos, we haven't reached the YPG protracted people's war phase of rebellion yet. Child soldiers are a bad idea, what the hellkind of moral atrophy have you guys embraced, this sounds like the people who say families needing three jobs to make ends meet is actually good because women are now free to "checks notes" work all day just like their husbands and never see their kids in the day time.

The milk shake thing is just me being open about what I see as bias against disruptive black activism.

 

[Deleted member]

@HistoryMinor ... What do you want for African-American society?

 

[FriedCFour]

@HistoryMinor do you think we are more, less, or equally biased against disruptive white activism?

 

[HistoryMinor]

@HistoryMinor ... What do you want for African-American society?

What does that really have to do with the topic at hand,this topic should be about tactics, it just got dragged down by a pathetic derail that took the boondocks speech (which I've brought up now and again on other forums) waaaaay out of context in a way that was misleading at best and racist at worst

 

[HistoryMinor]

@HistoryMinor do you think we are more, less, or equally biased against disruptive white activism?

Less, I don't hear anybody complaining about the armed shutdowns in the northwest and there was a quite a bit of bitching about the proud boi sentence.

 

[FriedCFour]

Less, I don't hear anybody complaining about the armed shutdowns in the northwest and there was a quite a bit of bitching about the proud boi sentence.

Okay. Is right wing equivalent to white to you?

 

[Deleted member]

What does that really have to do with the topic at hand,this topic should be about tactics, it just got dragged down by a pathetic derail that took the boondocks speech (which I've brought up now and again on other forums) waaaaay out of context in a way that was misleading at best and racist at worst

Fair. We should start another topic, then.

 

[HistoryMinor]

Okay. Is right wing equivalent to white to you?

Not necessarily, but in the US there definitely is a racial component to the ultranationalism and hyper conservative conservative tokenism that at best focuses on contrarians, and let's face it, bourgeois outliers more linked to house slave discourses from the past than the masses or vanguard's of the present. America's one drop rule and equation of civil rights with leftism distorts the paradigms.

 

[FriedCFour]

Not necessarily, but in the US there definitely is a racial component to the ultranationalism and hyper conservative conservative tokenism that at best focuses on contrarians, and let's face it, bourgeois outliers more linked to house slave discourses from the past than the masses or vanguard's of the present. America's one drop rule and equation of civil rights with leftism distorts the paradigms.

I'm sorry but that was a whole lot of sound signifying nothing. Let me try this again. Does right wing equal white? Also, let me try it this way. Does progressive mean black?

 

[HistoryMinor]

I'm sorry but that was a whole lot of sound signifying nothing. Let me try this again. Does right wing equal white? Also, let me try it this way. Does progressive mean black?

Farrakhan and Elijah Muhammed are rightwing, as are the efffectively defunct line of old mulattos that used to run segregated communities through the church and black businesses. There were some who just wanted acess to local white markets instead of having to basically go into exile once they achieved a modicum of success. A sober practical analysis of American politics however has to factor in Republican dependence on the southern strategy, which by necessity uses the power of states to break the back of the black belt and urban ghettos. What "progressive" means can vary, but all in all any non reactionary or collaborationist group has to embrace the rainbow coalition nature of the left's big tent. Of course anyone who gets rich enough can buy their way out of most of this struggle, there's a reason why Archie Bunker kissed Sammy Davis Jr.

 

[Deleted member]

@HistoryMinor Marcus Garvey was also arguably a right-wing nationalist.

 

[FriedCFour]

Farrakhan and Elijah Muhammed are rightwing, as are the efffectively defunct line of old mulattos that used to run segregated communities through the church and black businesses. There were some who just wanted acess to local white markets instead of having to basically go into exile once they achieved a modicum of success. A sober practical analysis of American politics however has to factor in Republican dependence on the southern strategy, which by necessity uses the power of states to break the back of the black belt and urban ghettos. What "progressive" means can vary, but all in all any non reactionary or collaborationist group has to embrace the rainbow coalition nature of the left's big tent. Of course anyone who gets rich enough can buy their way out of most of this struggle, there's a reason why Archie Bunker kissed Sammy Davis Jr.

It's a really simple yes or no question, I don't know why you are struggling so hard. Maybe let me try it this way. Do you think that bias is against black disruptive protests or progressive disruptive protests. Is it a political thing or a race thing with our bias against disruptive protests?

 

[HistoryMinor]

@HistoryMinor Marcus Garvey was also arguably a right-wing nationalist.

The back to Africa guy? Probably, he didn't believe integration would ever happen and he lacked a dialectical explanation of inequality. To be fair our definition of right v left has changed alot over time and is heavily skewed compared to LA and Europe.

 

[HistoryMinor]

It's a really simple yes or no question, I don't know why you are struggling so hard. Maybe let me try it this way. Do you think that bias is against black disruptive protests or progressive disruptive protests. Is it a political thing or a race thing with our bias against disruptive protests?

Seeing as you're ignoring the finer points of my argument, I'm gonna leave it there. Fuck Ice, as someone who just got hit by a 1mph moving car this morning (driver wasn't paying attention to my right of way as i crossed the street) i can see why people are upset.

 

[Deleted member]

The back to Africa guy? Probably, he didn't believe integration would ever happen and he lacked a dialectical explanation of inequality. To be fair our definition of right v left has changed alot over time and is heavily skewed compared to LA and Europe.

I think the only real path forward for African-Americans is found in Garvey’s principles, especially of self sufficiency. White society will only respect strength and success.

 

[HistoryMinor]

I think the only real path forward for African-Americans is found in Garvey’s principles, especially of self sufficiency. White society will only respect strength and success.

Well I think that's racist, no offense, e plurubus unum. Self sufficiency is important for all communities (look up Hampton's rainbow coalition, not that watered down Jesse Jackson knockoff) but it is emboldened and strengthened through united solidarity. (communitarian democratic confederalism with a transnational vanguard is the best way forward if shit hits the fan and we need to start over) Also bear in mind the fate of black wall street; if white society is riled up by the snake oil salesmen of hate, they're not going to let minorities have success no matter what. America and most colonialist nations were a nation of pogroms for most of their history, we just like to cover that up by lumping everything up under the banner of race riots, mostly because people assume black culpability when they use that label.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Actually, african-americans in the early 20th century were starting to see rather rapid upward economic mobility, until Wilson deliberately did everything he could to destroy that once he was elected. Then post WWII blacks were again showing rapid economic progress until Johnson started the Great Society and deliberately structured the programs to attack and destroy black communities in order to keep them impoverished and dependent.

Eliminate the perverse incentives of the Johnson legacy welfare state (perhaps by increasing the benefits to married couples over that of two unmarried people) and I think you will see a quite rapid renaissance of the black community. I will note that under Trump black unemployment is at historic lows...

 

[Deleted member]

Well I think that's racist, no offense, e plurubus unum. Self sufficiency is important for all communities (look up Hampton's rainbow coalition, not that watered down Jesse Jackson knockoff) but it is emboldened and strengthened through united solidarity. (communitarian democratic confederalism with a transnational vanguard is the best way forward if shit hits the fan and we need to start over) Also bear in mind the fate of black wall street; if white society is riled up by the snake oil salesmen of hate, they're not going to let minorities have success no matter what. America and most colonialist nations were a nation of pogroms for most of their history, we just like to cover that up by lumping everything up under the banner of race riots, mostly because people assume black culpability when they use that label.

It’s hardly racist to think African Americans need to be strong enough to negotiate on even terms with White America, or at least close to even terms. I think the day that’s true is the day we finally put this fair Columbia’s original sin to rest.

 

[HistoryMinor]

Actually, african-americans in the early 20th century were starting to see rather rapid upward economic mobility, until Wilson deliberately did everything he could to destroy that once he was elected. Then post WWII blacks were again showing rapid economic progress until Johnson started the Great Society and deliberately structured the programs to attack and destroy black communities in order to keep them impoverished and dependent.

Eliminate the perverse incentives of the Johnson legacy welfare state (perhaps by increasing the benefits to married couples over that of two unmarried people) and I think you will see a quite rapid renaissance of the black community. I will note that under Trump black unemployment is at historic lows...

1. I know Wilson was an asshole who did things like resegregate the military, but you're gonna have to go into more detail about what you mean. As for blacks post ww2, i think you're ignoring things like discrimination and individual states disproportionally breaking up black communities when they got too uppdity in order to clear room for highways (Miami) and stadiums (Dodgers). Also, you know, the constant lynchings.

 

[FriedCFour]

Seeing as you're ignoring the finer points of my argument, I'm gonna leave it there. Fuck Ice, as someone who just got hit by a 1mph moving car this morning (driver wasn't paying attention to my right of way as i crossed the street) i can see why people are upset.

I'm not ignoring any of the finer points. You are ignoring my basic yes or no questions and responding with a bunch of words that don't answer it. Let me just cut right to it. I take great satisfaction watching these progressive disruptive protesters getting ripped off their literal pedestal by a mob of ordinary working class people.


If anything, them being white progressives is more satisfying. I don't think we are biased against black disruptive protests, I doubt if the Bundy Bunch were the Jefferson bunch led by a Jamal with all the same politics we would have a different reaction because the modern right is nowhere near as race obsessed as the left is.