An interpretation/review of Sean McMeekin's 'The Russian Origins of World War One"

raharris1973

Well-known member
Interpretation of Sean McMeekin’s Russian Origins of WWI

-Good points –

· This book, and the same author’s ‘July 1914’ provide good data points on how the Russians were playing with fire and following an aggressive policy with their secret mobilization.

· He brings home the interesting and original point also that the impending Ottoman dreadnought deliveries were projected to give the Ottomans a naval advantage on the Black Sea for two years, so that presented the Russians with a short-term ‘window of opportunity’ closing, similar to what the Germans perceived they had.

· He points out that Russia was in the most advantageous position to pursue the straits with the Triple Entente in place and Britain and France on side. I would concede this is true, but would argue that was not unique to 1914, but applied to multiple earlier years also.

· He astutely observes that the way intra-Entente military planning worked out, Russia was able to guarantee itself Entente support (first France, then Britain) over a matter which was a perceived Russian interest, Serbia’s fate in the Balkans. Furthermore, military plans were such, that the enemy first blows fell on Russia’s allies and neutrals: Serbia, France, and Belgium, instead of Russia herself, and Russia got to bring the war to its German and Austro-Hungarian enemy’s territories with its homeland untouched the first year.

· He observes correctly that once the war started, the dreadnought delivery to the Ottomans stopped.

· He observes correctly that once the Ottomans joined the war, Russia got specific agreements it had never gotten before from its alliance partners, about partitioning the Ottoman Empire, with the Straits and Ottoman Armenia falling into Russian hands.

· Additionally, despite Russia being the ultimate territorial beneficiary per intra-Entente agreements, the western Allies actually attempted the military labor of seizing the straits.

The first point noted is a useful balance or accompanying context to German-centric examinations of the origins of the war. The last four points, provide a novel counter to the idea that Russians expressed late in the war that they were dutifully and unrewardingly sacrificing themselves and their way of life (first the Tsarist regime, and then the Provisional Government) to continue the war on behalf of their western allies. Well, that might have been how it worked out, but when the war started, it was most definitely, the other way around, the western allies jumping in front the Central Powers bullet, on behalf of Russian agendas and Russian prestige.

· McMeekin also provides several interesting datapoints about the superior morale, and superior performance, or Russian ground troops on the Ottoman Caucasus front compared to the European fronts, although this better performance has been noted elsewhere, for example in David Fromkin’s “a peace to end all peace”

-Stretched points—

At the same time, historical reality, and Russian choices during the war, just often failed to line-up with the central emphasis McMeekin places on the straits as the be-all, end-all motivating Russian policy during the war.

· Russian failure to actually directly assault the straits during the three years Russia was at war is pretty notable. Sure there may have been hard tactical and operational obstacles, but if it was *the* primary goal, you’d think the Russians would find a way.

· Russia didn’t declare war on or attack the Ottomans at the outset of the war, it waited for the Ottomans to attack and declare war three months after general hostilities. It also didn’t have an anti-Ottoman offensive prepared along the common border along the common border, which you would expect if they were planning an imminent war of aggression.

· Russia’s passive support or tolerance for western allies Gallipolli operation can be read two ways. McMeekin chooses to read it as the Russians cleverly getting the west to do the Russians work for them. This would be true, if they keep their promises, but it also posed a risk to the very same straits for Russia agenda, by allowing western forces to get into a physical position to deny the straits to Russia.

· Obviously, since there was a war in Europe, and Russia depended on support from western allies, Russia needed to take prompt effort and always make a sufficient effort to keep Germany and Austria-Hungary tied down to avoid the defeat of France. But Russia still didn’t go as far as it might have to give its war a “southern accent” to put the straits in its reach by allocating more of its forces against the Ottomans and Bulgarians to blast a way to the straits, at the expense of some of their offensive efforts or forward defenses in the Poland/Belarus/Ukraine area.

· Despite the advantages in bringing down any of Germany’s southern allies, the Austro-Hungarians, Bulgarians, and most importantly the Ottomans, the Russians discouraged and ultimately delayed the entry into the war of allies who could help in their defeat, notably the Italians, Romanians, and Greeks. I think that foot-dragging weakens the case for the Russian straits-centric approach, and it certain should lower our estimation of the Russians’ strategic realism and judgment.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Interpretation of Sean McMeekin’s Russian Origins of WWI

-Good points –

· This book, and the same author’s ‘July 1914’ provide good data points on how the Russians were playing with fire and following an aggressive policy with their secret mobilization.

· He brings home the interesting and original point also that the impending Ottoman dreadnought deliveries were projected to give the Ottomans a naval advantage on the Black Sea for two years, so that presented the Russians with a short-term ‘window of opportunity’ closing, similar to what the Germans perceived they had.

· He points out that Russia was in the most advantageous position to pursue the straits with the Triple Entente in place and Britain and France on side. I would concede this is true, but would argue that was not unique to 1914, but applied to multiple earlier years also.

Russia was stronger in 1914 than it was in, say, 1910, no? That's a notable difference. Though the same could have been said for 1917 or 1920 vs. 1914 had WWI not broken out in 1914 and the alliance systems would have remained intact.

· He astutely observes that the way intra-Entente military planning worked out, Russia was able to guarantee itself Entente support (first France, then Britain) over a matter which was a perceived Russian interest, Serbia’s fate in the Balkans. Furthermore, military plans were such, that the enemy first blows fell on Russia’s allies and neutrals: Serbia, France, and Belgium, instead of Russia herself, and Russia got to bring the war to its German and Austro-Hungarian enemy’s territories with its homeland untouched the first year.

· He observes correctly that once the war started, the dreadnought delivery to the Ottomans stopped.

· He observes correctly that once the Ottomans joined the war, Russia got specific agreements it had never gotten before from its alliance partners, about partitioning the Ottoman Empire, with the Straits and Ottoman Armenia falling into Russian hands.

Had Russia really wanted to partition the Ottoman Empire, its best shot to do it much more cheaply in terms of money and lives was in the mid-1890s with the Hamidian massacres. Yet back then Russia refused to do this--though it did seriously consider, but ultimately reject, a plan for a Russian amphibious attack on the Straits in 1895-1896.

· Additionally, despite Russia being the ultimate territorial beneficiary per intra-Entente agreements, the western Allies actually attempted the military labor of seizing the straits.

Because they had stronger naval power, especially Britain--no?

The first point noted is a useful balance or accompanying context to German-centric examinations of the origins of the war. The last four points, provide a novel counter to the idea that Russians expressed late in the war that they were dutifully and unrewardingly sacrificing themselves and their way of life (first the Tsarist regime, and then the Provisional Government) to continue the war on behalf of their western allies. Well, that might have been how it worked out, but when the war started, it was most definitely, the other way around, the western allies jumping in front the Central Powers bullet, on behalf of Russian agendas and Russian prestige.

· McMeekin also provides several interesting datapoints about the superior morale, and superior performance, or Russian ground troops on the Ottoman Caucasus front compared to the European fronts, although this better performance has been noted elsewhere, for example in David Fromkin’s “a peace to end all peace”

-Stretched points—

At the same time, historical reality, and Russian choices during the war, just often failed to line-up with the central emphasis McMeekin places on the straits as the be-all, end-all motivating Russian policy during the war.

· Russian failure to actually directly assault the straits during the three years Russia was at war is pretty notable. Sure there may have been hard tactical and operational obstacles, but if it was *the* primary goal, you’d think the Russians would find a way.

The Russian blogger Anatoly Karlin previously wrote/claimed that the Russian Navy was planning to do this in the summer of 1917 but that the February Revolution got in the way of this.

· Russia didn’t declare war on or attack the Ottomans at the outset of the war, it waited for the Ottomans to attack and declare war three months after general hostilities. It also didn’t have an anti-Ottoman offensive prepared along the common border along the common border, which you would expect if they were planning an imminent war of aggression.

Why spark a war with a new enemy when you don't have to do so? It would also rally the enemy's morale by portraying you as an aggressor rather than them.

· Russia’s passive support or tolerance for western allies Gallipolli operation can be read two ways. McMeekin chooses to read it as the Russians cleverly getting the west to do the Russians work for them. This would be true, if they keep their promises, but it also posed a risk to the very same straits for Russia agenda, by allowing western forces to get into a physical position to deny the straits to Russia.

They needed Russia's manpower for their war effort in WWI; they wouldn't have denied the Straits to Russia.

· Obviously, since there was a war in Europe, and Russia depended on support from western allies, Russia needed to take prompt effort and always make a sufficient effort to keep Germany and Austria-Hungary tied down to avoid the defeat of France. But Russia still didn’t go as far as it might have to give its war a “southern accent” to put the straits in its reach by allocating more of its forces against the Ottomans and Bulgarians to blast a way to the straits, at the expense of some of their offensive efforts or forward defenses in the Poland/Belarus/Ukraine area.

Fighting the Ottomans more intensively would not have helped Russia's allies as much as having Russia put more effort into the fight in Europe, though.

· Despite the advantages in bringing down any of Germany’s southern allies, the Austro-Hungarians, Bulgarians, and most importantly the Ottomans, the Russians discouraged and ultimately delayed the entry into the war of allies who could help in their defeat, notably the Italians, Romanians, and Greeks. I think that foot-dragging weakens the case for the Russian straits-centric approach, and it certain should lower our estimation of the Russians’ strategic realism and judgment.

Can you please elaborate on this part, Rob?
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
Overall, what's the thesis you are trying to champion @WolfBear? That McMeekin's argument is correct in every particular? I still don't think it holds together, certainly not in an unqualified way.

Elaborating on the last point, I've heard it alleged that the Russians delayed Italian entry into the war by objecting for some time to some of the territorial cessions that ultimately were promised to Italy in the Treaty of of London. Thus the Russians bought more time for their Austrian foes. Who outlived them in the war. Oops.
I've heard it alleged that the Russians delayed Romanian entry into the war, by not favoring it, objecting for some time some of the territorial cessions the Romanians were ultimately promised for Romanian entry into the war, and not engaging in joint planning for operations once the Romanians did join. Thus the Russians bought more time for their Austrian foes, and their Bulgarian foes, who both bordered Romania. I've heard it alleged that the Russians also adamantly opposed the offer of Greek troops participation in the Gallipoli campaign, thus buying more time for their Turkish foes to strangle them at the straits.
 

Buba

A total creep
Forsooth! Interesting ideas by McMeekin.
1.
Delivery of the two Ottoman battleships gives Turkey an edge for a year.
Maybe.
A ship needs to be worked up (i.e. crew trained) etc. That's months.
Meanwhile, the Black Sea fleet:
a - had its pre-dreads fight as a group
b - was getting two dreads of its own in autumn 1915. And would have three - if not four - by 1916.

2.
Delay of Italian entry - IMO militarily meaningless.
The Italians could not do a thing until the snows melted anyway. April - and late April at that - was probably the earliest reasonable date that warops - i.e. a rifle armed mob with a few artillery pieces could charge uphill - would begin.

Just nitpicking :)


BTW - as to what Russia had been promised. I wonder how much actually would be delivered by the Western powers?
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
Overall, what's the thesis you are trying to champion @WolfBear? That McMeekin's argument is correct in every particular? I still don't think it holds together, certainly not in an unqualified way.

Elaborating on the last point, I've heard it alleged that the Russians delayed Italian entry into the war by objecting for some time to some of the territorial cessions that ultimately were promised to Italy in the Treaty of of London. Thus the Russians bought more time for their Austrian foes. Who outlived them in the war. Oops.
I've heard it alleged that the Russians delayed Romanian entry into the war, by not favoring it, objecting for some time some of the territorial cessions the Romanians were ultimately promised for Romanian entry into the war, and not engaging in joint planning for operations once the Romanians did join. Thus the Russians bought more time for their Austrian foes, and their Bulgarian foes, who both bordered Romania. I've heard it alleged that the Russians also adamantly opposed the offer of Greek troops participation in the Gallipoli campaign, thus buying more time for their Turkish foes to strangle them at the straits.

Interesting. And FWIW, I wasn't actually advocating a particular thesis here; rather simply responding to all of the specific points that you made here.
 

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