United States BART - why bespoke, oddball specs?

Buba

A total creep
I suppose this shoudl go under politics, although a "Technology" tag also would fit.

I looked at the BART wiki and that urban light rail system has almost everything customised.
And needlessly - I can understand the allure of the broad gauge, as it allows bigger loading gauge (i.e. car dimensions), but the cars are TINY! They are no bigger than average standard gauge cars, and smaller tnan quite a few.
A 1676mm gauge line to run 3200mm cars? Plus a few other "not found anywhere else" solutions.
WHY?!?
Why did "it seem a good idea at that time" and/or "what vested interests pushed for non-standard solutions"?

Russia and India, on different broad gauges, run cars with 2x3 seating cars.
So why BART has those puny cars with 2x2 seating?
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
I suppose this shoudl go under politics, although a "Technology" tag also would fit.

I looked at the BART wiki and that urban light rail system has almost everything customised.
And needlessly - I can understand the allure of the broad gauge, as it allows bigger loading gauge (i.e. car dimensions), but the cars are TINY! They are no bigger than average standard gauge cars, and smaller tnan quite a few.
A 1676mm gauge line to run 3200mm cars? Plus a few other "not found anywhere else" solutions.
WHY?!?
Why did "it seem a good idea at that time" and/or "what vested interests pushed for non-standard solutions"?

Russia and India, on different broad gauges, run cars with 2x3 seating cars.
So why BART has those puny cars with 2x2 seating?
I have no idea what any of this post means
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I have no idea what any of this post means
Government grift and crony capitalism, most likely.

One-off solutions like this exist to either ensure job security for the developer, in this case engineer, or keep the contracting company employed for years on end.

I think that the word "California" should have been enough of a red flag. ;)
 

Airedale260

Well-known member

You know, it’s amazing what 15 seconds on Google can turn up:


Long story short, it was because they wanted to make lighter weight cars for easier and smoother acceleration; however, since lighter weight cars result in decreased stability, engineers compensated for it by widening the track gauge.

Politics had nothing to do with it; it was a pure technical/engineering issue. Some of the other stuff (controls and the like) had to be developed from scratch because subway/heavy rail tech hadn’t really advanced since the 1940s (BART was the first new project in about 30 years) so a lot of it was designed from scratch for the simple reason that it didn’t EXIST. Hell, the Washington Metro (also designed and built around the same time) took a lot of its design cues from BART.
 

Buba

A total creep
You know, it’s amazing what 15 seconds on Google can turn up:
Thank you.
they wanted to make lighter weight cars for easier and smoother acceleration; however, since lighter weight cars result in decreased stability, engineers compensated for it by widening the track gauge.
I still can't wrap my mind around not using that wider track gauge to increase loading gauge and having 2x3 seating ...
 
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bintananth

behind a desk
I still can't wrap my mind around not using that wider track gauge to increase loading gauge and having 2x3 seating ...
Passenger flow would be my guess.

2x3 seating results in 25% more people using one aisle. Each stop has be longer as a result so passengers can board and exit the cars.
 

gral

Well-known member
Passenger flow would be my guess.

2x3 seating results in 25% more people using one aisle. Each stop has be longer as a result so passengers can board and exit the cars.
Yeah. 2x3 seating would have made sense in cars serving lines with large distances between stations(longer than suburban train lines, more like regional trains - definitely not light rail).

Biggest thing to me is these cars seem too big to be 'light' rail....
 

Flintsteel

Sleeping Bolo
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Thank you.

I still can't wrap my mind around not using that wider track gauge to increase loading gauge and having 2x3 seating ...
Because that would have re-introduced the stability issue they went to a wide gauge to avoid. The car body being wider than the wheels is what causes that.

Biggest thing to me is these cars seem too big to be 'light' rail....
All passenger rail is light rail. Heavy is freight.
 

gral

Well-known member
All passenger rail is light rail. Heavy is freight.
Technically you are correct, but 'light rail' can also refer(and usually does, when talking about passenger transportation) to lighter vehicles like trams or monorails.
 

Buba

A total creep
Ha! Finally found a photo of 2x3 seating (on Russian suburban commute) I was ranting about:
podmiejski3.jpg
 

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