Better german B weapons during WW2.

[ATP]

I read book about german secret B program in occupied Poland - Paweł Głuszek "Laboratorium Zagłady"/my translation - Lab of doom/
Basically,germans from 1940 started low-profile working on B weapons under doctor Kurt Blume,but little was done,except experiments on prisoners in Death camps.
But,after Kursk,they decide to create offensive weapons - before they only wanted get vaccines.

They take over polish nun monastery in Pokrzywno/near Poznań/ ,turned sister into slave worker/but not killed or tortured them/ and,till soviets come in 1944,builded 4 buildings - one for making B weapons,second for prisoners to made experiments,third for decontamination and last for crew to work.
According to both sisters and germans,they never completed their work.
Polish prisoners who made them told later,that even german workers and SS guards were sure,that they all be killed to keep secret.
Considering what germans usually did,it is very probable.

They planned to work on anthrax,plague,typhus and others,and use new tactic - bomb enemy with both poison gas and B weapins - thanks to that,B weapon should be more lethal.

Soviets were there till 1948 and take everything what they wanted,so we would never knew what exactly germans did.
Both Blume and his vice worked for short time for USA,but when soviets take that to american press,americans must send them from USA.

Interesting thing - polish underground group lead by dr.Franciszek Witaszek used plagues to kill germans in Poznań restaurants till 1942,and killed at least 20.
They were discovered,when our leaders ordered them kill 5 german Abwhere officers going to East Front at all cost.They did it,gestapo discovered group,and tortured and killed them.
Short story - we did what germans could not,and failed only becouse our leaders wanted help soviets.Who thanked us later in gulags.Yes,we are very brave and smart fools.

But - it is not important.What important is - WHAT IF GERMANS START WORKING SERIOUSLY IN 1940 ON B WEAPONS?
Woud they used it after Kursk? if so,how efficient it would be?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Germany knew that usage of chemical weapons in war would just result in them being used against them.

Hence nobody in WW2 really used chemical weapons, at least large-scale like WW1 armies did.

 

[ATP]

Germany knew that usage of chemical weapons in war would just result in them being used against them.

Hence nobody in WW2 really used chemical weapons, at least large-scale like WW1 armies did.

Bullshit.If they used sarin in 1944,they could stop soviets and made London dead city.What Allies could do in retaliation,which they arleady was not doing?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Bullshit.If they used sarin in 1944,they could stop soviets and made London dead city.What Allies could do in retaliation,which they arleady was not doing?

Chemical weapons aren't the war-winning weapons you think they are. They're a dirty and slow working weapon which can be defeated.

Germany actually HAD a crapload of chemical weapons, and as I said they didn't use it for obvious reasons.

If chemical weapons were so effective, why didn't the allies just dump a crapload of their stuff on the Germans? They were happy to use nukes, chemical weapons are hardly more disturbing.

 

[ATP]

Chemical weapons aren't the war-winning weapons you think they are. They're a dirty and slow working weapon which can be defeated.

Germany actually HAD a crapload of chemical weapons, and as I said they didn't use it for obvious reasons.

If chemical weapons were so effective, why didn't the allies just dump a crapload of their stuff on the Germans? They were happy to use nukes, chemical weapons are hardly more disturbing.

Sarin is not war winning,but soviet-stopping,becouse soviet soldiers have notching which could save them from it.
Use it on ukrainian or polish occupied soil/best idea - Dniepr river/ and soviet would do notching for rest of the war.

And,when Allies start invasion,send V2 with it to London.Or,if you fear retaliation,on Normandy beaches.
Then ask nicely about peace terms.

Problem is - Hitler was once soldier,saw C weapons used,and forbid it as a result.
Considering that the same dude ordered genocide of polish cyvilians from 1939, soviet after 1941,and jews from 1942,it is rather strange.
He risk notching,becouse all Allies had was Iperyt,and germans knew how to deal with it.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Sarin is not war winning,but soviet-stopping,becouse soviet soldiers have notching which could save them from it.
Use it on ukrainian or polish occupied soil/best idea - Dniepr river/ and soviet would do notching for rest of the war.

And,when Allies start invasion,send V2 with it to London.Or,if you fear retaliation,on Normandy beaches.
Then ask nicely about peace terms.

Problem is - Hitler was once soldier,saw C weapons used,and forbid it as a result.
Considering that the same dude ordered genocide of polish cyvilians from 1939, soviet after 1941,and jews from 1942,it is rather strange.
He risk notching,becouse all Allies had was Iperyt,and germans knew how to deal with it.

Some V2's containing even modern nerve agents wouldn't be enough to put Britain out of the war.

You're comparing chemical attack to nuclear-level of damage, when their only good showing was in WW1 when the concept of 'metal box which shoots at enemies' was a brand new concept.

Yeah sure a bunch of Russians would die to the chemicals, as if they didn't have more to spare and now you have the allies (Russia included) throwing chemicals back at the Germans. Gas masks only last for so long.

 

[ATP]

Some V2's containing even modern nerve agents wouldn't be enough to put Britain out of the war.

You're comparing chemical attack to nuclear-level of damage, when their only good showing was in WW1 when the concept of 'metal box which shoots at enemies' was a brand new concept.

Yeah sure a bunch of Russians would die to the chemicals, as if they didn't have more to spare and now you have the allies (Russia included) throwing chemicals back at the Germans. Gas masks only last for so long.

Germans had special units designed to use sarin,and could use it in arillery.
One barrage would kill any soviet attack.
When soviet would retaliate with iperyt,which germans could survive with their stuff.
Remember,all german need was defend Dniepr river,not take anything.

When both soviet and Allies need to advance.And sarin is ideal weapon to stopping such advances.

German would not win war with it - but stop soviet and Allies from winning.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Germans had special units designed to use sarin,and could use it in arillery.
One barrage would kill any soviet attack.
When soviet would retaliate with iperyt,which germans could survive with their stuff.
Remember,all german need was defend Dniepr river,not take anything.

When both soviet and Allies need to advance.And sarin is ideal weapon to stopping such advances.

German would not win war with it - but stop soviet and Allies from winning.

Sarin like most nerve agents disperse pretty rapidly, confined spaces? Great. Open fields? Not so much.

And you're forgetting lend lease, America specifically had chemical weapons prepared in case Germany used any.

 

[ATP]

Sarin like most nerve agents disperse pretty rapidly, confined spaces? Great. Open fields? Not so much.

And you're forgetting lend lease, America specifically had chemical weapons prepared in case Germany used any.

Which still do not helped against sarin - it was game changer becouse stuff which protected from iperyt/which allies had and soviet could have/
do not protected from sarin.

That is why germans could stop soviets on any bigger river,preferable Dniepr.Especially that soviet air forces were so shitty that germans used not only Ju88 during day,but also Ju87.
They could bomb whotever they liked,especially soviet HQ with sarin.

And americans could use iperyt - german army have stuff to counter that,most of their cyvilians,too.
Slaves there - who care? certainly not germans.

 

[Wilykit]

If the the Germans use sarin it just makes the British ,Americans and (God help them) the Soviets MORE ANGRY! This might just end with Germany getting the Japan treatment. Almost nothing the Germans could get using WW2 tech is going to help them win the war. The most they are going to do is drag it out longer.

 

[ATP]

If the the Germans use sarin it just makes the British ,Americans and (God help them) the Soviets MORE ANGRY! This might just end with Germany getting the Japan treatment. Almost nothing the Germans could get using WW2 tech is going to help them win the war. The most they are going to do is drag it out longer.

Agree.But,so what? Hitler wanted fight to the end.After failed coup,nobody could stop him,and it mean fall of Germany in 1946 after getting 10+ A bombs.
But - sovietrs would be stopped on Dniepr and lost their army there,so,at least,survivors in Central Europe would be free,not soviet slaves.Better for everybody except germans.

 

[Wilykit]

Agree.But,so what? Hitler wanted fight to the end.After failed coup,nobody could stop him,and it mean fall of Germany in 1946 after getting 10+ A bombs.
But - sovietrs would be stopped on Dniepr and lost their army there,so,at least,survivors in Central Europe would be free,not soviet slaves.Better for everybody except germans.

Oh I'm not arguing for the Germans here. I'm just saying Hitler is going to find out the meaning of Frack around...Find out.

 

[ATP]

Oh I'm not arguing for the Germans here. I'm just saying Hitler is going to find out the meaning of Frack around...Find out.

Indeed.But,since soviets would destroy their armies trying to take Dniepr river line,we would have free Central Europe as a result.
And Germany with 10+ cities with ruins shining in the night.
And not rebuild by USA,becouse they would not need them as counter to soviets.

Much better world - in long run,even for germans.Becouse they would be not ruled by NSDAP elites this time.