Building a Fantasy Army

[Aldarion]

New series of posts on my blog, about how to build a fantasy army. Part 1 deals with the most basic influences. These include environment (terrain, climate, resources) and geography (mountains, rivers, etc.).

Part 1:

Building a Fantasy Army, Part 1: Introduction and Environment

Introduction Military is often an important part of fantasy, even if it is not military fantasy specifically. Epic fantasy such as Lord of the Rings, and political fantasy such as A Song of Ice and…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

 

[ATP]

Well,levies for some time was efficient,so i would made my army from them,King Guards/proffesionals/,Border guards/also professinals/ and hire small number of mercaneries to help train levies.

 

[Aldarion]

Border guards are actually better if they are part-time soldiers recruited from local populace... knowledge of terrain and all that.

 

[Husky_Khan]

New series of posts on my blog, about how to build a fantasy army. Part 1 deals with the most basic influences. These include environment (terrain, climate, resources) and geography (mountains, rivers, etc.).

Part 1:

Building a Fantasy Army, Part 1: Introduction and Environment

Introduction Military is often an important part of fantasy, even if it is not military fantasy specifically. Epic fantasy such as Lord of the Rings, and political fantasy such as A Song of Ice and…

military-fantasy.com

I keep forgetting how large a proportion of the Balkan armies and Eastern European armies were actually cavalry. Like it's something you always read, but it never really sinks into ones noggin that it's a par for course of that region in that era. Obviously upon reflection it makes sense thanks to geography and culture but can easily be overlooked by normies such as myself unless it's actually pointed out.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Seems useful. I'm guessing the followup articles will discuss actual fantasy elements, such as how having centaurs or orcs would change up formations and the presence of magic?

Also is your "click to support" link to a book you made or just pays you for clicks?

 

[Aldarion]

I keep forgetting how large a proportion of the Balkan armies and Eastern European armies were actually cavalry. Like it's something you always read, but it never really sinks into ones noggin that it's a par for course of that region in that era. Obviously upon reflection it makes sense thanks to geography and culture but can easily be overlooked by normies such as myself unless it's actually pointed out.

Yeah. That is in part why I wrote the article. I have noticed that many authors know how things were done in Middle Ages but not why, which then leads to some rather weird things. GRRM is a good example of that, actually.

Seems useful. I'm guessing the followup articles will discuss actual fantasy elements, such as how having centaurs or orcs would change up formations and the presence of magic?

Yes, though focus is on things which fantasy authors miss. No sense in discussing logistics for centaurs when most authors do not understand logistics for humans...

Also is your "click to support" link to a book you made or just pays you for clicks?

It is Amazon affiliate program. I actually think it pays for sales, not for clicks.

 

[ATP]

Border guards are actually better if they are part-time soldiers recruited from local populace... knowledge of terrain and all that.

Hmmm...you are right.So,border guard like you said and levies:
1.heavy calvary from nobles - checked by king instructors,if they do not have proper armour and horses they lost part of privilages.
2.medium calvary - the same,and nomads living in my country.
3.light calvary - nomads.

Infrantry:
1.archers with longbows from rich free farmers/do not let form serf - it would destroy my country/checked by royal inspectors,too.
2.heavy infrantry from cities - checked twice,becouse cities in medieval times tended to send worst people to fight for king and keep all good for themselves.
3.light infrantry from poor free farmers and mountain clans.

 

[Aldarion]

Hmmm...you are right.So,border guard like you said and levies:
1.heavy calvary from nobles - checked by king instructors,if they do not have proper armour and horses they lost part of privilages.
2.medium calvary - the same,and nomads living in my country.
3.light calvary - nomads.

Infrantry:
1.archers with longbows from rich free farmers/do not let form serf - it would destroy my country/checked by royal inspectors,too.
2.heavy infrantry from cities - checked twice,becouse cities in medieval times tended to send worst people to fight for king and keep all good for themselves.
3.light infrantry from poor free farmers and mountain clans.

Yep. That would work, and was in fact how things often were done in middle ages. Hungary actually had a setup very close to what you are describing:
1. Heavy cavalry = nobility (magnates etc.)
2. medium cavalry = noble retainers and militia portalis
3. light cavalry = nomadic peoples (Szekelys etc.)
4. archers = local peasants, free farmers
5. heavy infantry = cities and foreign mercenaries
6. light infantry = peasants etc.

 

[Husky_Khan]

It would make for a fun CYOA type thing. Kind of a "Build your own Medieval Province" or something and the like and then you just go through multiple questions and add points in various categories and it'll poop out the results of what your province would look like demographically, geographically, economically and most important of all, militarily.

I must ponder on this more. Seems like something I can waste several hours on to get a response or two due to still poor setup.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

What authors often forget is the sheer expense of high quality kit under pre industrial conditions. A hauberk and a helm under a padded Jack is a few years of wages for an unskilled workman. And this is the minimum for a professional man at arms. There’s a reason that baseline infantry kit was ‘helm, padded-fabric, shield, and spear’ from antiquity through to pike and shot.

And that’s not even considering the need for ‘leisure’ time not spent working in agriculture for training at skills at arms and the access to proteins and fats needed to grow a peak condition fighting man from early age.

Or that, contra the Whig narrative of ‘free men with bows’ those levy archers and billmen from the free-holding yeomanry often resented the requirements on them to keep arms and train with them to keep their social status and would and did use any and all excuses to skimp on training and gear.

 

[ATP]

soft armour made from cotton or other materials would work very well.I read once fragments of muslim chronicle,when author wrote about crusade infrantry with at least 10 arrows sticking from each - and they were still not hurt,only pissed.

 

[Aldarion]

What authors often forget is the sheer expense of high quality kit under pre industrial conditions. A hauberk and a helm under a padded Jack is a few years of wages for an unskilled workman. And this is the minimum for a professional man at arms. There’s a reason that baseline infantry kit was ‘helm, padded-fabric, shield, and spear’ from antiquity through to pike and shot.

And that’s not even considering the need for ‘leisure’ time not spent working in agriculture for training at skills at arms and the access to proteins and fats needed to grow a peak condition fighting man from early age.

Or that, contra the Whig narrative of ‘free men with bows’ those levy archers and billmen from the free-holding yeomanry often resented the requirements on them to keep arms and train with them to keep their social status and would and did use any and all excuses to skimp on training and gear.

Yeah, peasant infantry really never stood a chance against a professional army. Only with gunpowder weapons did conscription even become a viable solution.

soft armour made from cotton or other materials would work very well.I read once fragments of muslim chronicle,when author wrote about crusade infrantry with at least 10 arrows sticking from each - and they were still not hurt,only pissed.

It also apparently helps cool you down when it soaks in enough sweat... and Byzantine infantry and even thematic cataphracts used it as their primary armour for a long time.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Honestly, I'm most interesting in reading about chapter 10, Aerial warfare.
Nothing beats dragon vs dragon combat.

 

[Aldarion]

Second part, discussing the influence of society and politics:

Building a Fantasy Army Part 2: Society and Politics

Society and Culture Tribal armies are often infantry-based; while nobility may fight mounted, they rarely develop an effective cavalry arm. Tribal society often has an emphasis on individual valour…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

 

[ATP]

Honestly, I'm most interesting in reading about chapter 10, Aerial warfare.
Nothing beats dragon vs dragon combat.

Dragons still need food.Which means,that only King and most powerfull lords could use them.Unless we have some tribe living on seashore which dragons hunt whales,then they could have many dragons.

 

[Marduk]

And that’s not even considering the need for ‘leisure’ time not spent working in agriculture for training at skills at arms and the access to proteins and fats needed to grow a peak condition fighting man from early age.

Another aspect here that could be massive for some fantasy is effects of nature and water magic on specifically that - time spent working in agriculture and how much of a spare food a farmer has available to sell afterwards, allowing other people to work on other things.

Or that, contra the Whig narrative of ‘free men with bows’ those levy archers and billmen from the free-holding yeomanry often resented the requirements on them to keep arms and train with them to keep their social status and would and did use any and all excuses to skimp on training and gear.

That seems like a tension between the original tradition and the environment that inspired it (dark age/early medieval England) vs the realities of later time. Namely, back when England was less populated and more politically divided, the skills to defend the village/town were a matter of survival the next attempt closer or further neighbors take at pillaging the place (or some Danes get pissy about not getting paid to not visit), and any time spent practicing with bow could be more than worth the same time in farming due to the game one could hunt.
Fast forwards few hundred years and what little game is there is owned by the king or local noble and its illegal to hunt it for some random dude with a bow, while that and other combat skills are usually needed to fight in some silly noble's or king's war the average yeoman couldn't care less about. Totally different deal then.

A lot of fantasy has large areas of obvious, or at least in effect frontier territories more similar to the former option - large swathes of land with sparse or no population that aren't effectively controlled (if at all) by any major polity that would bother keeping poachers out, in effect massively increasing the value of archery to local peasants. Same goes for all the random human and inhuman threats attacking these frontier settlements as much, if not more than they were in most tumultuous parts of IRL history.
More hunting oriented diet also solves the diet side of the issue for these populations.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

What authors often forget is the sheer expense of high quality kit under pre industrial conditions. A hauberk and a helm under a padded Jack is a few years of wages for an unskilled workman. And this is the minimum for a professional man at arms. There’s a reason that baseline infantry kit was ‘helm, padded-fabric, shield, and spear’ from antiquity through to pike and shot.

The logistics of army equipment is incredibly overlooked.

IIRC Europe didn't really begin producing a lot of plate armor until the iron mining industry was capable of mining and refining enough iron - and in high enough quality - for the workshops to be able to afford a "decent" amount of iron to work with. And even then, the armor they made were incredibly expensive.

But expense aside, another thing that is hardly mentioned is the time required to make stuff. For a suit of armor, you had to have workshops of like 30 different guys who were specialized in different tasks working for days. How many armor workshops are there in your entire country? Not many in the first place. Weren't there only like 1 or 2 dedicated armoring workshops in Britain way back when? Didn't most nobles order from that famous German workshop?

If you decide "we're going to war!", you can't just outfit your army out of nowhere. Even if you had a ridiculous amount of money lying around, you're still constrained by the limited production of the handful of workshops. If you're going to war within a couple weeks, any armors you order might not be ready in time. Those limited number of workshops are also a huge strategic liability, as if the enemy can locate them and send men to guard the workshops, well... you're not getting an armies from them (in fact the enemy might just take the armors you had paid so much for!).

You could try setting up a lot of workshops within your country to increase production, but this is a highly specialized trade. There might not be enough qualified armorsmiths to do it. And there might not be enough iron being mined either to supply the operation.

If you have a Lannister army of thousands of men in plate armor, that implies that iron production isn't even in the late medieval period anymore. You're talking about enough iron to supply the British navy during the age of sail. You could be making thousands of muskets and cannons and huge ships to carry it all with that much iron.

Or that's my take on it. I could be wildly off the mark and be missing something obvious.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

If you have a Lannister army of thousands of men in plate armor, that implies that iron production isn't even in the late medieval period anymore.

It really depends. Yes, armour production required much highly skilled labour, but together with the grinding of bread-flour, steel production and arms and armour were the first things to benefit from wind and water power and the first glimmerings of industrial production, often at the direction of the monasteries that directed arms and armour production under first Charlemagne and then later the Ottonian Emperors.

By the 1400s, which is to say late Medieval and stretching into early Modernity, you could and did have 'armoury' plate that was intended for the common footman, worked just enough to do its job and in standard sizes that fit no one very well, but fit many men 'good enough'.

 

[Aldarion]

The logistics of army equipment is incredibly overlooked.

Part 7 of the series is about logistics. And one of first things discussed is the armour supply.

For now, all I will say about your post is: yes, but not quite. Munitions armour has existed since Antiquity, but has required a centralized state with state-owned workshops (so Roman Empire and China, and even that only during some periods of their history).

 

[Doomsought]

This is why chainmail remained popular despite its difficulty and flaws. Chain-mail is flexible and and can be used by people of different sizes.

The other popular high quality armor is the brigandine, which offers nearly as much protection as plate armor but is much easier to make because it retains its shape using cloth or leather rather than metal links.

Otherwise, cloth armor combined with a shield provides a high degree of protection compared to its cost.