Commieboo myths

[prinCZess]

Yeah, the rote adherence to 'the Soviet Union won the war for the Allies!' meme by people, predominantly communists or sympathizers, is a myth. There was, perhaps, an element of needed pushback against an analysis of the war that ignored or deemphasized the importance/scale of the Eastern Front because of Cold War tensions and American/NATO desire to morally grandstand, but it has long since gone beyond any needed correction and into sheer ridiculousness.

Of course, the meme is a good springboard for noting the massive scale of logistical aid the Soviet Union received which was the only reason the Soviet military could put into practice the large-scale, 'deep battle' doctrine that gets crowed-up by military historians. Also a good springboard for noting that, prior to doing such, the Soviets were hand-in-hand with the Nazis conquering Poland, exchanging military and industrial technology, and chumming it up so hard that Stalin went into a funk and did a days-long surprise-Pikachu face sulk when he found out his buddy Hitler had gotten the better of betraying him first before he'd had the chance to betray Hitler in the name of glorious communist expansion.

Alongside that first one is also the slavish (pun not intended but has me giggling) praise put upon Zhukov as some military genius. A praise that...isn't entirely deserved and, if even a little deserved, is grossly misaimed and misattributed since the man was putting into practice a doctrine that numerous predecessors had theorized about and even been successful with. But they had been shot or 'rehabilitated' by Stalin and in many cases weren't Great Russians so Stalin's weird inferiority-complex and the Soviet propaganda machine manufactured Zhukov into the conquering hero and sidelined much more deserving leaders (who were more suspect of not being entirely on-board with Stalin's peen...to put it crudely) who made their names on at least smaller piles of their own men's bodies. But...well, Stalin not known for his great concern over having to step over bodies for 'achievement', anyways.

Then we could get into the mythology of the Soviets overseeing 'free' elections in the territories they conquered but...honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen anyone put that up as even an attempted rewriting of history. Even die-hard tankies seem to be willing to admit that the puppet-governments in Romania, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia post-coup, and the Baltics were exactly that. Just...y'know...arguing they were totally justified and good 'because communism' or 'brotherhood of workers' or 'nonexistent NATO was threatening them' and such.

 

[Shermpotter]

And the Soviets were,by 1945, absolutely bled white. If Berlin had turned into a Russian Stalingrad, the Russians would have had to turn to using females in front line combat or not be able to fight at all.

 

[ATP]

Yeah, the rote adherence to 'the Soviet Union won the war for the Allies!' meme by people, predominantly communists or sympathizers, is a myth. There was, perhaps, an element of needed pushback against an analysis of the war that ignored or deemphasized the importance/scale of the Eastern Front because of Cold War tensions and American/NATO desire to morally grandstand, but it has long since gone beyond any needed correction and into sheer ridiculousness.

Of course, the meme is a good springboard for noting the massive scale of logistical aid the Soviet Union received which was the only reason the Soviet military could put into practice the large-scale, 'deep battle' doctrine that gets crowed-up by military historians. Also a good springboard for noting that, prior to doing such, the Soviets were hand-in-hand with the Nazis conquering Poland, exchanging military and industrial technology, and chumming it up so hard that Stalin went into a funk and did a days-long surprise-Pikachu face sulk when he found out his buddy Hitler had gotten the better of betraying him first before he'd had the chance to betray Hitler in the name of glorious communist expansion.

Alongside that first one is also the slavish (pun not intended but has me giggling) praise put upon Zhukov as some military genius. A praise that...isn't entirely deserved and, if even a little deserved, is grossly misaimed and misattributed since the man was putting into practice a doctrine that numerous predecessors had theorized about and even been successful with. But they had been shot or 'rehabilitated' by Stalin and in many cases weren't Great Russians so Stalin's weird inferiority-complex and the Soviet propaganda machine manufactured Zhukov into the conquering hero and sidelined much more deserving leaders (who were more suspect of not being entirely on-board with Stalin's peen...to put it crudely) who made their names on at least smaller piles of their own men's bodies. But...well, Stalin not known for his great concern over having to step over bodies for 'achievement', anyways.

Then we could get into the mythology of the Soviets overseeing 'free' elections in the territories they conquered but...honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen anyone put that up as even an attempted rewriting of history. Even die-hard tankies seem to be willing to admit that the puppet-governments in Romania, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia post-coup, and the Baltics were exactly that. Just...y'know...arguing they were totally justified and good 'because communism' or 'brotherhood of workers' or 'nonexistent NATO was threatening them' and such.

Well,Sralin planned to backstab his buddy in 1941 - hence reaction - why he did it first.
Zukow was good in sending soldiers and tanks into battle no matter cost.Either germans were out of ammo,or he out of soldiers.Every sergeant could do that.

And,there were better commanders - Konew who destroyed german group Center in 1944,and dude who destroyed japaneese forces in Manchuria.

About real worth of soviet forces - even in 1945 they still lost 3-4 KIA for 1 german,when they had 10:1 advantage in artillery,tanks and planes.And even then german Ju 87 bombed them during day till they were out of fuel.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The other dimension often not discussed is that if the Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany essentially by themselves, then along with Lend Lease, would the Soviets of been just as successful if say, Britain made peace in June of 1940 ending the blockade of Nazi Germany so that Germany can get whatever resources they want, say oil and coal and iron and steel etc from around the world? Because the Axis Powers were under a bit of a blockade for roughly the entire War due in large part not due to the bravery of the world encompassing Soviet Navy.

 

[ATP]

The other dimension often not discussed is that if the Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany essentially by themselves, then along with Lend Lease, would the Soviets of been just as successful if say, Britain made peace in June of 1940 ending the blockade of Nazi Germany so that Germany can get whatever resources they want, say oil and coal and iron and steel etc from around the world? Because the Axis Powers were under a bit of a blockade for roughly the entire War due in large part not due to the bravery of the world encompassing Soviet Navy.

Soviet Navy - german cruises bombed soviets forces on Baltics till they were out of ammo only loses german navy suffered there was two small destroyers - one sunk by planes,another by torpedo boats.
On Black sea Germans could evacuated Crimea by sea,becouse soviet Navy feared to face mighty Romanian Navy there.All 4 destroyers,if i remember correctly.

 

[Zyobot]

Can't comment as much on the "West did nothing, USSR stronk!" meme, but to bring up another myth: It always amuses me how Western leftists and news publications readily praise the Cuban healthcare system — despite the kind of shambles it's in, as even a remotely competent journalist could probably figure.




At least when Kanye blathered about how great Hitler was, he got called out and disavowed pretty much overnight. But Angela Davis, Michael Moore, and the New York Times when they parrot obvious myths about how "enlightened" and "altruistic" left-wing regimes are? At most, they get a National Review piece picking apart their falsehoods and half-truths one by one — rather than the institutions, their employers, and a solid majority of their own side jumping down their throats the moment the mask slips. Maybe we could use more of that, so long as Kanye's getting shitcanned when — unlike Davis, Moore, or NYT — barely anyone takes him seriously, as is.

 

[Atarlost]

1) A German victory is very much not a better future

In the long run I doubt it. Fascism is national. Communism is international. Each nation's homegrown fascists want their nation to be supreme. Communists, on the other hand work together. Fascism is an attempt to return to absolutism which humanity got past before. Communism is something without historical precedent and the final toll hasn't been counted.

A German victory makes the 20th century the darkest time in human history. A Russian victory looks like it's going to make the 21st century unimaginably worse.

 

[Prince Ire]

In the long run I doubt it. Fascism is national. Communism is international. Each nation's homegrown fascists want their nation to be supreme. Communists, on the other hand work together. Fascism is an attempt to return to absolutism which humanity got past before. Communism is something without historical precedent and the final toll hasn't been counted.

A German victory makes the 20th century the darkest time in human history. A Russian victory looks like it's going to make the 21st century unimaginably worse.

Communism is functionally dead as a political ideology. Even the CCP is closer to being fascist than genuinely communist. Blaming the 21st century's problems on it is foolish. The best you can do is intersectionality, but that is very much a Western phenomenon that explicitly rejects Marxism-Leninism's class-first perspective.

 

[Aldarion]

Communism is functionally dead as a political ideology. Even the CCP is closer to being fascist than genuinely communist. Blaming the 21st century's problems on it is foolish. The best you can do is intersectionality, but that is very much a Western phenomenon that explicitly rejects Marxism-Leninism's class-first perspective.

It doesn't. Modern-day progressive critical race theory is just class warfare reinterpreted in racial terms. In other words, essentially anti-white variant of Nazism - but keep in mind that Nazism was socialism, and modern-day progressivism is an internationalist ideology and in that way closer to Communism (where Nazism was national socialism).

 

[Prince Ire]

It doesn't. Modern-day progressive critical race theory is just class warfare reinterpreted in racial terms. In other words, essentially anti-white variant of Nazism - but keep in mind that Nazism was socialism, and modern-day progressivism is an internationalist ideology and in that way closer to Communism (where Nazism was national socialism).

I actually had to read critical race theorist works in graduate school. Critical race theorists consider Marxism to be Eurocentric and Marx to be just another old, dead, white man.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Lula.

As a Brazilian he is the myth the man the legend.

Biography and movie already done.

The bastard did many things wrong and he is THE left in Brazil.

But a bit of Google research and it would clash with the image.

And Brazilians who elected him AGAIN are already complaining.

I guess those Brazilians will learn the hard way.

 

[Zyobot]

Not really a myth, but if you want something that qualifies as "Factual, but not truthful!": Whether Nazism or Communism was worse, as well as by what metric we measure "worse" here.

I've argued it before, so quoting myself for your guys' convenience:

Mostly agreed, though I’d still add a few caveats here.

For one, while I agree that the Reich’s plans were more reprehensible in principle, the whole “Exterminate and enslave all non-Aryans everywhere!” thing tends to turn off most people — Aryans and non-Aryans alike — and unite them against you in the long run. As such, I’m pretty sure the Nazis would’ve made more enemies than friends over the ensuing decades, assuming their regime soldiered on long enough.

Communists, on the other hand, don’t have this problem, seeing as promises of workers’ solidarity and international brotherhood win over a much larger base than Nazism ever could. The downside is, this also means you get way more people willing to try it out, too — and the fact that communist regimes everywhere are on the same team making them harder to isolate and stamp out, unless they’re Juche or Khmer Rouge levels of batshit crazy. The result: more economic ruin, more oppression, and more mass-killings — much of it by accident or callous negligence instead of systematic extermination campaigns. In fact, I’d actually say a commie regime that kills millions of people without necessarily meaning to is almost scarier than a Third Reich that works tooth and nail to do the same, because at least the latter weren’t quite as cack-handed in governing “their own” as the former and had to try very hard to kill as many people as they did.

In short, I’d say that while Nazism is more evil, Communism is more dangerous, due both the Red Multiplier Effect and their tendency to stack up mountains of corpses both deliberately and through sheer incompetence, whereas the Reich’s body count was just about 100 percent them trying their hardest, rather than simply being negligent or stupid. But I digress too much.

Basically, I'd say a victorious Third Reich would've been a great deal more genocidal than Soviet Russia (or other lasting Communist regimes) were, to the point where their whole aim of "Exterminate and enslave all non-Aryans everywhere!" would've turned the rest of the world against them before they could enact their fantasies on a global scale.

The Communists don't have this problem, though the fact more people will happily give Communism a go than they would Nazism means they'll have a larger support base — and therefore, way more people attempting to implement a doomed ideology, hence there being numerous Communist regimes that have cumulatively brutalized, oppressed, and mass-murdered more people than the Reich did. Never mind how, whereas the Nazis gave their all when it came to exterminating their designated enemies and were (usually) competent enough to spare those they deemed "useful", the Commies were so cack-handed, they ended up culling and starving millions of "class enemies" and their own people alike by accident (as well as intentionally). In short, while I'd personally concede that the Nazis are more evil, I'd also say the Commies are more dangerous, courtesy of the Red Multiplier Effect and their tendency to ruin everything they touch without even meaning to — rather than having to try their hardest to be as murderous as humanly possible, as Hitler and his circle of fiends did.

 

[Zachowon]

Technically true but also false.
True communism has never been tried.

 

[Zyobot]

Technically true but also false.
True communism has never been tried.

 

[LordsFire]

I actually had to read critical race theorist works in graduate school. Critical race theorists consider Marxism to be Eurocentric and Marx to be just another old, dead, white man.

They can say whatever they want, their ideology is still descended from communism and marxism, in part through post-modernists.

CRT advocates are all willfully blind and massively prejudiced, so it's hardly surprising.

 

[History Learner]

I've consistently pushed back on the Soviets won the war for years, particularly by showing the importance of Lend Lease. Just don't take it too far because then I think it starts to go the other way; WWII was ultimately a coalition war that depended on equal efforts by both halves of the Allies to win it.

 

[Zyobot]

They can say whatever they want, their ideology is still descended from communism and marxism, in part through post-modernists.

CRT advocates are all willfully blind and massively prejudiced, so it's hardly surprising.

Frankly, there are times when I wonder just how many corpses these guys would rack up if they had their way and magically came to power overnight.

True, the average CRT proponent is probably a well-intentioned, but misinformed lefty who’d prefer to “dismantle systematic racism” through peaceful means that don’t require razing America wholesale. However, I doubt the people in charge would share their idealism; after all, I’m pretty sure the bulk of Russians reviled Bolshevik rule in the beginning, too — yet that didn’t stop them from crushing dissent and liquidating class enemies left, right, and center. Seen in that light, I doubt true CRT believers who got their way would be all that swayed by what the silent majority thinks, so long as they’re too terrified to speak up as they turn the US into the Postmodernist, gender-nonconforming lovechild of Papa Doc’s Haiti and Khmer Rouge Cambodia.

 

[Cherico]

I've consistently pushed back on the Soviets won the war for years, particularly by showing the importance of Lend Lease. Just don't take it too far because then I think it starts to go the other way; WWII was ultimately a coalition war that depended on equal efforts by both halves of the Allies to win it.

I honestly feel that helping clean up the mess you created gives a pretty large dent in the credit you get when the war is over.

 

[TheRejectionist]

What bothers me about Euro-American "neo-communists" or called them how you want is how often they side with individuals like Bezos, Gates and others and don't see the hipocrisy of that.
Or ignore historical facts such the socialistic and atheistic origins of Mussolini, not to mention that Hitlerite National Socialism was still socialism despite much more diluted and watered down than the Strasserite variant. The channel @Aldarion shared also should have an 1 hour or 2 video explaining this.
Which creates my personal paradox that I am considered integralistic or fascistic by my peers simply because I voted Bolsonaro in Brazil and here I voted for a left nationalist coalition of parties but then elsewhere just as the Sietch I am leftist.

I personally have a deep hatred of modern day leftist "leaders" because they are the equivalent of university hippies, degenerate, divisionists, excessively cosmopolitan and prone to back monopolies like BlackRock because "muh rainbow".

Especially this considering they protested for not being able to show those "colors" and not for the slavery and deaths in Qatar during the FIFA world cup.

 

[Aldarion]

Or ignore historical facts such the socialistic and atheistic origins of Mussolini, not to mention that Hitlerite National Socialism was still socialism despite much more diluted and watered down than the Strasserite variant. The channel @Aldarion shared also should have an 1 hour or 2 video explaining this.

I actually had to read critical race theorist works in graduate school. Critical race theorists consider Marxism to be Eurocentric and Marx to be just another old, dead, white man.

Socialists disagree with each other quite frequently (just look at the Spanish Civil War... Franco's Socialists against Republican socialists... and in Republican ranks, Communists busy murdering anyone not a Communist and so on).

Doesn't change the fact that CRT is built on philosophical foundations set by Marxism.