Confederate Flags banned in the Military

[Free-Stater 101]

However, you need to dial back acting like it's the South that gets to set the conditions on this issue

They do as it's their problem to deal with, forcing the issue in the terms of riots is a bad idea the statues aren't being torn down at the moment because they are the direct cause of the problems rather because people are mad that a man was killed and are forcing the issue in a way that makes people a lot angry and people angry and makes the issue of 'racism' get worse.

or has the larger amount of leverage.

They do have the leverage unless you are stating the federal government has the right to remove them, then it's the state's job to do so.

Those defending Confederate symbols and pride in it need to justify it to the rest of the country, not the other way around.

They don't need to justify themselves to anyone as private citizens, anymore than you have to justify wearing a bathrobe on your front lawn to your neighbor or that NK has to justify it's existence to the U.S. or vice versa in that sense.

Because it seems like those so gung-ho to defend and excuse the Confederate flag with appeals to 'muh local history and family heritage' give few damns about the feelings of those who ancestors fought to defeat it

They aren't harassing you about the existence of Union statues are they? last I checked Union spy James J Andrews and his raiders statues were still in the national cemetery.

those who ancestors fought to defeat it and are tired of it's legacy still causing us problems.

Get over it, the fact is if that God destroyed every Confederate statue and flag in existence tomorrow the general perception of it would be the same because like it or not ideals or perceptions don't change because objects are destroyed and they definitely don't change as a result of these riots.

I wouldn't even say just the south any more, it is a symbol of the rural working class. The symbol of woodcutters, factory workers, ditch diggers and farm hands.

Ironically I will state it's usage has spread farther than the Confederate Army ever did.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

Look the most important things the Usa was founded on was free speech and freedom of religion I think freedom of culture is implied there. If a bunch of people payed to have Satanist flags and statues up I wouldn’t care or Hindu or Chinese or Buddhist. But I would be mad if people where saying you can’t have those symbols or flags or statues because of moral panic. Because these riots this conversation it’s a moral panic that got out of hand.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I was taking about the last 40 or 50 so year, a long view of why there were racial tensions to exploit in the first place, after the Civil Rights Act went into force.

The riots now are mostly the fault of the Far-Left. But the Far-Left gained power partly because of conservative defense of Confederate symbols and silence on the Lost Cause mythology made it easy to paint them that way.

The Far Left gaining power due to "silence on the Lost Cause" mythology and defense of Confederate symbols is literally <1% of the reason of the Far Left's rise to power. The Far Left's rise to power is almost wholly because of the Democratic establishment stoking racial tensions throughout the Obama administration as well as the consistent series of Left victories in literally every sphere since 2008. Surrendering in the Iraq War. Legalizing Same Sex marriage throughout the land. The Iranian Nuclear Arms Deal. The two trillion dollar Federal Stimulus. Massive expansion of food stamps, CHIPS, the Cuban thaw, and so on and so forth. Then after radicalizing the Democratic Party they snubbed Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Primary for Hildog, the media endorsing Trump for the Republican nomination so they could steamroll him and then Trump somehow having the temerity of winning the election. This is combined with having spent the past thirty years steadily normalizing Conservatives and Right Wingers as Nazis and Racists. Bush was Hitler. McCain is a bloodthirsty Romney was a psychopath fundie.

Meanwhile we've had then Governor Nikki Haley agree to the remove of the Confederate flag from the South Carolina capital grounds back in 2015 but she's still considered a racist Nazi. I think IIRC South Carolina democrats dubbed her and Eva Braun.

Like seriously, if you don't want to empower the Far Left, y'all probably should've voted someone boring into office like Marco Rubio instead of Trump. Or Hilary Clinton. Cuz the fact Trump exists and has a President in front of his name is the main reason why the Far Left is gaining power. The temerity of it all, not rolling over and surrendering back in 2016 to the Clinton coronation!

I'm not going to hold off on opposing Lost Cause bullshit just because it might help Democrats in some nebulous way.

Nebulous way?

Democrats dump Jefferson, Jackson names from dinners

A signature of Democratic politics that is as iconic as donkeys and blue banners may be headed toward retirement as the state party renames its signature fundraising dinner to avoid

www.tribstar.com

City Pages

www.citypages.com

CNN analyst: tear down George Washington and Thomas Jefferson statues

CNN commentator Angela Rye has called for all statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson to be taken down because the men they enshrine were slave owners, she said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

George Washington’s Virginia church taking down his memorial

A church attended by George Washington will take down a memorial to the nation’s first president, a move church leaders say is intended to make the place of worship more welcoming.T…

thehill.com

Minnesota DNR can rename Lake Calhoun as Bde Maka Ska, high court rules

Ruling by state Supreme Court caps a longstanding dispute over the name of the lake.

www.startribune.com

Thomas Jefferson statue will be moved following calls to remove racist symbols from public spaces – Decaturish - Locally sourced news

Share This story has been updated. Decatur, GA — The organizer behind a June 17 rally on the Decatur Square says a statue of Thomas Jefferson in downtown Decatur will be removed. The Beacon Hill Black Alliance for Human Rights organized the protest, calling for the immediate removal of the...

decaturish.com

Philadelphia announces plans to remove Columbus statue after repeated violence at Marconi Plaza

The move comes a day after statue supporters brawled with protesters at the statue.

www.inquirer.com

Columbus, Ohio, to remove Christopher Columbus statue

The mayor of Columbus, Ohio, announced Thursday the city plans to remove the Christopher Columbus statue that stands in front of city hall in favor of “diversity and inclusion.”

www.foxnews.com

Camden to rename Woodrow Wilson High School, citing the former president’s segregationist legacy

"Our students will walk into a new building not tied to a building with a racist legacy,” the superintendent said Friday.

www.inquirer.com

At least 4 San Francisco schools may be renamed amid BLM push

The San Francisco Unified School District is moving toward renaming some schools in the...

www.sfgate.com

Yeah don't worry, we'll draw a line here... somewhere... it'll be squiggly and nebulous though I guarantee it!

 

[Cherico]

The South's perception of the conflict is skewered that's why, the reason is that the average southerner for over a hundred and fifty years has been told that it's the 'South's symbol' and thus a symbol of themselves the problem with that is the South of 1861 and now might as well be another planet Hank Williams Jr puts this attitude in this song which sums it up pretty well.

ugh ok Hank Williams is definatly wrong on this one.

First of all if the south had won there would been a round two why? The missippi river and its tributaries makes up one of the largest navigable river systems in the world and it lets out to the atlantic near New Orleans. There is no way that the northern states are going to allow another country to essentially control the bulk of trade in the united states. America was willing to entertain allying with the british empire to fight france over this territory right after the revolution its that big of a deal. By hook or crook the north will do anything to get that undercontrol.

Second slave economies are notoriously moribund due to all of the problems associated with them and slaves present a force who have nothing to lose who can be armed for an uprising at anytime and that isn't going into the huge amount of debt the confederacy would have, their wreaked economy, the boll weevil moving in soon on top of that and the utter mess that was the confederate government.

A independent south would be a third world country that is merciessly exploited by its northern neighbor the south in the union at least has a say in how things are done.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

First of all if the south had won there would been a round two why? The missippi river and its tributaries makes up one of the largest navigable river systems in the world and it lets out to the atlantic near New Orleans. There is no way that the northern states are going to allow another country to essentially control the bulk of trade in the united states. America was willing to entertain allying with the british empire to fight france over this territory right after the revolution its that big of a deal. By hook or crook the north will do anything to get that undercontrol.

Second slave economies are notoriously moribund due to all of the problems associated with them and slaves present a force who have nothing to lose who can be armed for an uprising at anytime and that isn't going into the huge amount of debt the confederacy would have, their wreaked economy, the boll weevil moving in soon on top of that and the utter mess that was the confederate government.

A independent south would be a third world country that is merciessly exploited by its northern neighbor the south in the union at least has a say in how things are done.

Thanks for proving my point, the average southerner isn't into alternate history like you or I and a few people because of this ignorance definitely think that if the south would have won they would have been 'better off' in the sense that they think they would have been better off today, but the reality is a south that won the civil war it would look almost nothing like the south of today as we know it.

 

[Cherico]

Thanks for proving my point, the average southerner isn't into alternate history like you or I and a few people because of this ignorance definitely think that if the south would have won thy would have been better off in the sense that they think they would have been better off today, but the reality is a south that won the civil war would look almost nothing like the south of today as we know it.

southernors some times forget that as much as we are dicks to them were family, and we thus look after each other. See the banana wars for how yankees treat people who are not family.

 

[Deleted member 88]

I find it fucking amazing we are in the outset of a full blown cultural revolution and people here are legitimately arguing over why the south was wrong.

Names of all sorts of establishments are being changed, politicians are caving in as if literal guns were to their heads, we have utter anarchy, and people want to debate why the confederate flag might be bad.

I also find it astounding people are setting arbitrary lines in the sand that the left is already running over to claim some sort of pseudo moral ground.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I find it fucking amazing we are in the outset of a full blown cultural revolution and people here are legitimately arguing over why the south was wrong.

Names of all sorts of establishments are being changed, politicians are caving in as if literal guns were to their heads, we have utter anarchy, and people want to debate why the confederate flag might be bad.

I also find it astounding people are setting arbitrary lines in the sand that the left is already running over to claim some sort of pseudo moral ground.

Some issues are just like that, not everybody agrees were a line should be drawn in the sand.

 

[Cherico]

I find it fucking amazing we are in the outset of a full blown cultural revolution and people here are legitimately arguing over why the south was wrong.

Names of all sorts of establishments are being changed, politicians are caving in as if literal guns were to their heads, we have utter anarchy, and people want to debate why the confederate flag might be bad.

I also find it astounding people are setting arbitrary lines in the sand that the left is already running over to claim some sort of pseudo moral ground.

like I said earlier its been over a 150 years since the civil war and we kind of need to get over it all around.

That said you are correct the far left has gone mad with power and needs to be stopped which means putting aside our grivences and telling the communists 'no' and not letting them make America the next 'it wasn't really socialism' disaster.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Some issues are just like that, not everybody agrees were a line should be drawn in the sand.

Then we will be defeated. BLM and Antifa will reign for the next hundred years or more.

 

[LordsFire]

I find it fucking amazing we are in the outset of a full blown cultural revolution and people here are legitimately arguing over why the south was wrong.

Names of all sorts of establishments are being changed, politicians are caving in as if literal guns were to their heads, we have utter anarchy, and people want to debate why the confederate flag might be bad.

I also find it astounding people are setting arbitrary lines in the sand that the left is already running over to claim some sort of pseudo moral ground.

This is far from the most highly trafficked thread in this forum. It's an interesting thread to discuss, but don't mistake that for meaning people see it as a hugely high priority.

Then we will be defeated. BLM and Antifa will reign for the next hundred years or more.

Seriously, your level of blackpilling is getting obnoxious. If the left wins in November, then you have justification for thinking they will 'reign' for some period again.

If they lose, the left will be too busy tearing itself apart to know which particular flavor of madness they'll be pushing next. And yes, they'll still have control of a lot of institutions, and yes, that's a serious concern that should be discussed. On a different thread.

 

[Bacle]

It seems more and more people in the GOP leadership are waking up to the fact the Confederate flag and what it represents is not cherished or honored by most of the country. The seem to be realizing that this is not a hill worth dying on.

 

[Deleted member 88]

What hill is worth dying on?

When Antifa commissars drag away you for re-education?

God I hate republicans. I hate their cowardice, their pathetic invertebrate back bending, I hate mainstream "conservatives" who defend nothing except their own sinecures, I hate all the damn pundits and "right leaning" politicians that try to meet the left three quarters of the way to get a favorable editorial from the NYT or response from CNN.

Get rid of confederate imagery, and American imagery will follow soon.

This just confirms something I have long suspected.

Its over. This worthless disgusting wretched country ought to have BLM rule, in fact it absolutely fucking deserves it.

You may as well lower your American flag, and report to your re education camps.

 

[LordsFire]

What hill is worth dying on?

When Antifa commissars drag away you for re-education?

God I hate republicans. I hate their cowardice, their pathetic inveterbrate back bending, I hate mainstream "conservatives" who defend nothing except their own sinecures, I hate all the damn pundits and "right leaning" politicians that try to meet the left three quarters of the way to get a favorable editorial from the NYT or response from CNN.

Get rid of confederate imagery, and American imagery will follow soon.

This just confirms something I have long suspected.

Its over. This worthless disgusting wretched country ought to have BLM rule, in fact it absolutely fucking deserves it.

You may as well lower your American flag, and report to your re education camps.

Get off the internet and take a chill pill. This is nothing but venom and doomerism.

 

[Largo]

Except slavery helped to distort their priorities on economic development. There were nascent efforts to begin industry in the South, but Southerner planters distrusted banks and other accoutrements of capitalism-fueled development. The cotton boom of the 1850s fueled even more focus on exportation of those raw goods, as cotton literally became "white gold", causing even more Southern capital to be tied down in land and slaves in the effort to export even more cotton.

Point of order here: Southern planters, far from distrusting banks, were heavily dependent on banks and credit to actually finance their purchases. New York City was pretty darn friendly towards the Confederacy, with its mayor making noises in 1861 about how it should become its own independent city-state.

You are correct that the nascent efforts to begin industry in the South was badly hurt by slavery, but a major reason for that was the common white Southerner. What, work? For hours on end? That was something a slave does, not me!

I find it fucking amazing we are in the outset of a full blown cultural revolution and people here are legitimately arguing over why the south was wrong.

The topic here is the Confederacy. You want to talk about other shit, talk about other shit in another thread. That's the way forums work in general.

 

[Bacle]

Get off the internet and take a chill pill. This is nothing but venom and doomerism.

As I said, he takes philosophical lessons from the Sith.

You expect anything but doom, venom, and blackpilling out of someone with that mindset?

 

[Deleted member 88]

Get off the internet and take a chill pill. This is nothing but venom and doomerism.

Nothing I have said, you can refute. Its not doomerism if the sky really is falling.

Frankly, I am starting to just hate this goddamn country and anyone who still thinks its worth salvaging.

Maybe 2020 will be end with the destruction of the diseased misshapen demonic beast known as the United States of America.

Wouldn't that be a grand way to cap off the year?

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Nothing I have said, you can refute. Its not doomerism if the sky really is falling.

Frankly, I am starting to just hate this goddamn country and anyone who still thinks its worth salvaging.

Maybe 2020 will be end with the destruction of the diseased misshapen demonic beast known as the United States of America.

Wouldn't that be a grand way to cap off the year?

And what would it be replaced with the peoples republic of CHAZ? No thanks.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The topic here is the Confederacy. You want to talk about other shit, talk about other shit in another thread. That's the way forums work in general.

The topic isn't the Confederacy though. The topic is the elimination of Confederate iconography used as representations of Southern heritage and culture and furthermore how their elimination may or may not be a slippery slope into the removal of other commemoration because such symbols offend the feelings of people.

So allusions to the larger cultural revolution is more then apt.

Keep in mind Bacle was the one who made these allusions to this being part of a greater Culture War already by stating that Lost Cause narratives and Confederate symbolism is one of the large parts of why the Far Left is so powerful nowadays and compared the people who disagreed to him with Comfort Women deniers and Neo-Confederates.

He also made arguments for his strategy of trolling the left to counter this Culture War... though he hasn't elaborated on that either beyond buzzword laden platitudes.

 

[Deleted member 88]

And what would it be replaced with the peoples republic of CHAZ? No thanks.

Honestly it’s what the citizens deserve. In fact it’s better than they deserve.