King Arts
Well-known member
Perpetual virginity of Mary is tradition. There is nothing in the Bible that says she couldn’t have other kids with Joseph.
Religion Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh?
- Thread starter Stargazer
- Start date
That's correct, actually. The perpetual virginity of Mary is the doctrine that Mary remained a virgin for her whole life, even after the birth of Jesus. That's a different doctrine than the virgin birth, which is the doctrine that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus' conception.
True.Luder later acted as ih he was super pope,just like any protestant ruler after his death - but ,that not change fact that sola scripture mean Bible only
Here,beginning of First Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 1:3-9
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving
4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. 5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you. 7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
God is God,and Jesus is Lord and son of God,but not God Himself.
Yes,thread is about if NT alone could prove that Jesus is God.So far/Acts and Romans/ it failed.
Here,another:
1 Corinthians 1:11-13
11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[a]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
As you could see,Jesus was considered as one of teachers by others,and crucified Man by Paul.
And,so far nothing in NT could prove that Jesus is God.
Here,another:
1 Corinthians 1:21-25
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
Jesus here is power of God and wisdom of God - but,not God Himself.
But,you have half a point.
It have perfect sense,if you follow Tradition.Protestants should never belive in it.
Here,anoter:
1 Corinthians 1:28-30
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Again,Jesus is wisdom of God,not God.But - you have 0,5 point.
Problem is - NT teaches in almost all cases that Jesus is Messiah,not God.
Here,another:
1 Corinthians 2:6-12
God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[a]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
God is God,and Jesus is crucified Lord of Glory.
BECOUSE I AM BAD PAPIST,BWAHAHAHA.And would enslave all cute protestand catgirls,lizardgirls,and spidergirls for my harem!
Jokes aside - NT not always describe God as God,soetimes as Lord - but,in most cases God is God.
When Jesus is almost always Lord,not God.
Now,another:
1 Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
Jesus is Lord,and when He come,God would praise us.But - Jesus is not God here.
Not sarcasm,but lack of logic.Virgin birth is past of Jesus,so no need to be mentioned - but,for people he is eiter God or Messiah.And in almost all cases they name his as Messiah/Lord.
Here,another :
1 Corinthians 4:9-10
9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings. 10 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored!
God is God,and Jesus is Christ - which mean Messiah.
False.
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?
1 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV
King Arts
Well-known member
Cool how about reading things in context. Also that's a weird translation. Overseer to Bishop. Anyway the Bible says Bishops aka the high level LEADERS of the Church can only have one wife. Not the laity. This Bible passage also condemns the Protestant lack of a priesthood. No the priesthood of all believers is not a thing. So nowhere in the Bible does it condemn a regular Christian from having more than one wife.
Yep, context is important, as is reading comprehension. And the context is that an overseer must be "above reproach". Paul then lists several things to make sure an overseer is above reproach. One of which is having one wife. That implies that having more than one wife would bring reproach. The overseer is instructed to have one wife because to have more than oneone would bring reproach, not simply because they're an overseer. Anyone who has more than one wife would thus be reproachable, according to the Bible.
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King Arts
Well-known member
You are reaching more than Catholics and Orthodox do for the traditions. You aren't doing a plain reading, this is what this says, it's allowed or forbidden. You are going deep into it. Even if you are right this disproves another Protestant idea that anyone can read and interpret the Bible. There are people that won't pick up that idea unless you tell them.
Seems pretty plain to me. Overseers are to be above reproach > Having one wife keeps them above reproach > Having more than one wife is reproachable. It's not rocket science.
And the Protestant idea is more like no single person or group has the authority to interpret the Bible and declare other interpretations invalid. I'm not arguing from authority, I'm arguing from the text.
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LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Extracting polygamy being destructive from the Bible is not hard.
Even if you consider Stargazer's example a reach (which it isn't), it's also forbidden to kings, even though multiple royal wives was a fairly normal tool of diplomacy in such times.
Further, every open example we have of polygamy or concubinage in the Bible ends up being very messy/destructive.
On top of this, the great Biblical allegory of God as the groom, and Israel, then later the church, as God's bride, is very clearly supposed to be monogamous, and it's lack of chastity that Israel/the church is rebuked for.
It's no mistake that every single protestant denomination that had any real fire or endurance (or that I've ever heard of) to it also taught strict monogamy. Because it's the obvious conclusion of scripture.
Even if you consider Stargazer's example a reach (which it isn't), it's also forbidden to kings, even though multiple royal wives was a fairly normal tool of diplomacy in such times.
Further, every open example we have of polygamy or concubinage in the Bible ends up being very messy/destructive.
On top of this, the great Biblical allegory of God as the groom, and Israel, then later the church, as God's bride, is very clearly supposed to be monogamous, and it's lack of chastity that Israel/the church is rebuked for.
It's no mistake that every single protestant denomination that had any real fire or endurance (or that I've ever heard of) to it also taught strict monogamy. Because it's the obvious conclusion of scripture.
Indeed.Tradition and Logic - Holy Mary is born without sin,so basically another species then current homo.
Here,another :
1 Corinthians 5:7-13
7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[b]
God is God who would judge us,Jesus is passover lamb.
Indeed,and we use both Tradition and Logic for that.
Here,another:
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Jesus is Lord,God is God.
ME BAD PAPIST! BWAHAHAHA!
Jokes aside - you are wrong again.Racist belive that you are human,but belonging to lesser race,so they could kill you and take your land.
Like protestants did with indians in North America.
Here,another:
1 Corinthians 6:13-15
13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
Here,Jesus not only is not God,but,using sola scriptura we could think that he is part of us.