Alternate History Empire of Brazil does not end with Pedro II

[PsihoKekec]

The coup that overthrew Pedro II was a curious affair, emperor was very popular and had strong support, but with no heir he accepted that the empire will end and thus opened himself to the overthrow in his final years.

But what if his second son had not fallen ill and died as a child, but grew into adulthood, with children of his own, thus securing the existence of the dynasty (through male line). If coup happened in 19th century it would certainly be squashed easily, but from then on much would depend of how well (or bad) is successors would rule. Nonetheless, Brazil would certainly benefit from a few more decades of political stability, however as history teaches us, decades of hard work can be negated in a few short years or even months if one tries really hard.

 

[ATP]

The coup that overthrew Pedro II was a curious affair, emperor was very popular and had strong support, but with no heir he accepted that the empire will end and thus opened himself to the overthrow in his final years.

But what if his second son had not fallen ill and died as a child, but grew into adulthood, with children of his own, thus securing the existence of the dynasty (through male line). If coup happened in 19th century it would certainly be squashed easily, but from then on much would depend of how well (or bad) is successors would rule. Nonetheless, Brazil would certainly benefit from a few more decades of political stability, however as history teaches us, decades of hard work can be negated in a few short years or even months if one tries really hard.

Indeed.If his dynasty keep power,Brazil would be one of rising superpowers now.
I do not think,that they would contribute much to WW1,WW2 and cold war,but profit from them.Getting H bombs about time when France get it,much stronger economy and military,and its own space program.

Changes possible - they would not save Europe from soviets,but Vietnam or Ethiopia? why not?
Maybe Rhodesia,too.

 

[Buba]

I've seen Brazilian posters bemoan the coup. They paint a picture where KOTOR stands for Kleptocracy Of The Old Republic.

The stability of the Empire should result in a richer country. However, I do not see Brazil as making much of an impact on OTL events.

 

[gral]

I've seen Brazilian posters bemoan the coup. They paint a picture where KOTOR stands for Kleptocracy Of The Old Republic.

Brazil keeping the Monarchy would have been better. How much better is a matter of debate. The politicians were the same. OTOH, an Empire of Brazil wouldn't have gone wholeheartedly on Comte's Positivism, which shaped so much of Brazilian politics and mindset in the 20th century.

 

[ATP]

Brazil keeping the Monarchy would have been better. How much better is a matter of debate. The politicians were the same. OTOH, an Empire of Brazil wouldn't have gone wholeheartedly on Comte's Positivism, which shaped so much of Brazilian politics and mindset in the 20th century.

Yes,positivism sucks.Catholic Emperor,if he used Aristotle approach,would made his country great.

 

[Sergeant Foley]

Brazil used to have a monarchy? 😕

 

[gral]

Brazil used to have a monarchy? 😕

For 67 years(1822-1889): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Brazil

 

[Sergeant Foley]

For 67 years(1822-1889): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Brazil

One what if the Monarchy remained in place.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Brazil used to have a monarchy? 😕

It had and it was glorious. Especially compared to what came after it.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Brazil would be probably in a better position but I am unsure if a male heir would have made it better frankly. Because the coup was backed by ex slavers.

I am saying this as someone who is in favor of a Bragança restoration. I am mildly monarchist-ish, but just for Brazil.

 

[ATP]

Brazil would be probably in a better position but I am unsure if a male heir would have made it better frankly. Because the coup was backed by ex slavers.

I am saying this as someone who is in favor of a Bragança restoration. I am mildly monarchist-ish, but just for Brazil.

Coup backed by slavers? Mon Dieu,Democrats did it!
P.S it was joke! /althought,some dudes from USA could help it/

 

[Sergeant Foley]

Brazil would be probably in a better position but I am unsure if a male heir would have made it better frankly. Because the coup was backed by ex slavers.

I am saying this as someone who is in favor of a Bragança restoration. I am mildly monarchist-ish, but just for Brazil.

In other words the monarchy was f****d?

 

[gral]

In other words the monarchy was f****d?

Probably. Many of the people who mattered wanted to ditch the Emperor, and most of the others wanted only to be with the winning side.

OTOH, the Empire had inertia on its side - and that was one of the reasons the Republicans moved when they did, they feared a peaceful transition from D. Pedro II to D. Isabel would cement the Monarchy even more, and they would lose their opportunity.

 

[Sergeant Foley]

Probably. Many of the people who mattered wanted to ditch the Emperor, and most of the others wanted only to be with the winning side.

OTOH, the Empire had inertia on its side - and that was one of the reasons the Republicans moved when they did, they feared a peaceful transition from D. Pedro II to D. Isabel would cement the Monarchy even more, and they would lose their opportunity.

Translation: They saw an opportunity and took it.

 

[gral]

Translation: They saw an opportunity and took it.

Yup, but had they not taken this opportunity, at least one other would have come - the sucession of D.Pedro II. I strongly suspect they would have moved then.

 

[WolfBear]

The coup that overthrew Pedro II was a curious affair, emperor was very popular and had strong support, but with no heir he accepted that the empire will end and thus opened himself to the overthrow in his final years.

But what if his second son had not fallen ill and died as a child, but grew into adulthood, with children of his own, thus securing the existence of the dynasty (through male line). If coup happened in 19th century it would certainly be squashed easily, but from then on much would depend of how well (or bad) is successors would rule. Nonetheless, Brazil would certainly benefit from a few more decades of political stability, however as history teaches us, decades of hard work can be negated in a few short years or even months if one tries really hard.

What exactly was wrong with Pedro's daughter Isabel and her husband Gaston d'Orleans?

 

[TheRejectionist]

What exactly was wrong with Pedro's daughter Isabel and her husband Gaston d'Orleans?

Gaston d'Orleans was, as the name implies, French.

A foreigner.

Isabel was a woman.

I probably sound like Sufficient Velocity or AH or SB but the reality of the day was that.

 

[WolfBear]

Gaston d'Orleans was, as the name implies, French.

A foreigner.

Isabel was a woman.

I probably sound like Sufficient Velocity or AH or SB but the reality of the day was that.

Foreigners could sometimes be accepted as rulers, no? As could women. Elizabeth I of England (woman) and George I of England (foreigner; German-born).

 

[Sergeant Foley]

Gaston d'Orleans was, as the name implies, French.

A foreigner.

Isabel was a woman.

I probably sound like Sufficient Velocity or AH or SB but the reality of the day was that.

Translation: Brazil wasn't ready for a woman running the show. Little did they know that there would be a female President in 2011.

 

[gral]

Translation: Brazil wasn't ready for a woman running the show. Little did they know that there would be a female President in 2011.

I wouldn't say she was a positive example of a female ruler...

I don't think the reason they didn't like Isabel and Gaston was solely because they were a woman and a Frenchman respectively(it didn't help, of course). They(especially Gaston) seemed to be disliked on their own merits, although I haven't seen much about it that would give me a better read of both personalities - D.Isabel was said to be an Ultramontane Catholic, something that was bound to clash with every Freemason out there(one of which was her father), not to mention with Brazilian policy regarding Catholicism(Church Edicts, including Papal ones, could only be enacted in Brazil by authorization of the Emperor), but that's the only thing I know.