Free Speech and (Big Tech) Censorship Thread

[LordsFire]

Perhaps my left-leaning bias is showing but, I don't think there's a particular problem with reasonable taxes on wealthy individuals making above a certain income? Ideally, if they want to keep living in this country and reaping the benefits that come with living in this country, they shouldn't protest too loudly about a little government incentive to pay their fair share, imo...

The basic concept of taxes is not fundamentally unacceptable.

Progressive tax rates are evil. Do not punish people for doing well at their work, it disincentivizes it, especially when combined with welfare programs.

A flat tax rate would probably give optimum amount of revenue vs economic activity somewhere between 6 and 12%. Outlier estimates might be as low as 2% or as high as 17%.

Now note, this is optimal for private prosperity, overall economic growth, and government revenue, because lower taxes take some of the shackles off of the economy, let it grow more, and thus actually result in more government revenue.

If you tax someone earning a million dollars a year 8% instead of 32%, that's another 240,000 dollars he's either spending, or investing, or saving, which the bank can then loan to someone else and thus becomes a de-facto investment.

That's enough to generate 3 more jobs earning 80k a year.

 

[Cherico]

Perhaps my left-leaning bias is showing but, I don't think there's a particular problem with reasonable taxes on wealthy individuals making above a certain income? Ideally, if they want to keep living in this country and reaping the benefits that come with living in this country, they shouldn't protest too loudly about a little government incentive to pay their fair share, imo...

I want you to honestly think about how much money we as a country pay into shit.

Americans when you add up local, state, and federal taxes pay as much as europeans. Look around you and ask yourself what the fuck is that money being spent on because the results suck ass.

You want to improve things cut down on the embezzelment, graft and corruption.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Perhaps my left-leaning bias is showing but, I don't think there's a particular problem with reasonable taxes on wealthy individuals making above a certain income? Ideally, if they want to keep living in this country and reaping the benefits that come with living in this country, they shouldn't protest too loudly about a little government incentive to pay their fair share, imo...

One small problem, they just won't pay them. As is the case today. Rich people don't pay taxes not because they aren't taxed, but because it's legal to not pay taxes if you're rich.

 

[IndyFront]

I want you to honestly think about how much money we as a country pay into shit.

Americans when you add up local, state, and federal taxes pay as much as europeans. Look around you and ask yourself what the fuck is that money being spent on because the results suck ass.

You want to improve things cut down on the embezzelment, graft and corruption.

Agreed. Maybe I'm a bit authoritarian in some ways but I don't particularly lose sleep at making the wealthy elite pay their fair share of keeping up to date on infrastructure, reasonable healthcare, and etcetera

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Rich people don't pay taxes not because they aren't taxed, but because it's legal to not pay taxes if you're rich.

It's at times like these that I wonder whether maybe all of the most overt, absurdly hard right posters on this forum are actually leftists in disguise.

I want you to honestly think about how much money we as a country pay into shit

What I want to know is why it seldom leads to superior outcomes. It'll be useful.

 

[Cherico]

\\

It's at times like these that I wonder whether maybe all of the most overt, absurdly hard right posters on this forum are actually leftists in disguise.


What I want to know is why it seldom leads to superior outcomes. It'll be useful.

Because a lot of the money gets embezzeled, expecially money earmarked for the homeless.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It's at times like these that I wonder whether maybe all of the most overt, absurdly hard right posters on this forum are actually leftists in disguise.

Its 2024, retard, projection is a well known tactic of pinko stooges like yourself. Try harder, and tell your manager that you shouldn't get a raise.

 

[Zachowon]

Its 2024, retard, projection is a well known tactic of pinko stooges like yourself. Try harder, and tell your manager that you shouldn't get a raise.

I mean, he has a point

 

[SoliFortissimi]

I mean, he has a point

It would be just our luck if the most rabid rightists on this forum are actually just leftist infiltrators who are trying to start a struggle session. Why they feel like caricatures would also make sense. Because that's just how Leftists think all right wingers are!

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I mean, he has a point

"Could people with opinions different to my own be real sincere people?.."

"...No...They must obviously be a convoluted infiltration effort!"

 

[Zachowon]

It would be just our luck if the most rabid rightists on this forum are actually just leftist infiltrators who are trying to start a struggle session. Why they feel like caricatures would also make sense. Because that's just how Leftists think all right wingers are!

I don't think infiltrators. Just ones who think the way for the right to win is to be leftist. Not in the current way obviously, but to employ thier tactics and the like.
Well that and they seem to pull hard right on damn near everything and over react to what is going on.

"Could people with opinions different to my own be real sincere people?.."

"...No...They must obviously be a convoluted infiltration effort!"

Now now, I don't think it as infiltration

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Now now, I don't think it as infiltration

You agreed with someone who's reply to 'Rich people don't pay taxes because they're legally allowed to avoid them entirely' was basically 'you're a leftist in disguise!'

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Just ones who think the way for the right to win is to be leftist.

That's like trying to fight a shark in the water with just your teeth, or fighting a bear in the woods with nothing but teeth and claws.

We must fight with our own weapons, not with theirs. You can't be a better Bolshevik than the Bolsheviks.

 

[Blasterbot]

That's like trying to fight a shark in the water with just your teeth, or fighting a bear in the woods with nothing but teeth and claws.

We must fight with our own weapons, not with theirs. You can't be a better Bolshevik than the Bolsheviks.

fair but if you have to fight off an angry hungry bear walking up to it and telling it how you would prefer if it didn't eat you is not an effective tactic either.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

fair but if you have to fight off an angry hungry bear walking up to it and telling it how you would prefer if it didn't eat you is not an effective tactic either.

Shooting it in the skull is, though. But only if you can prove to the Government that you weren't looking to start the fight.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Higher taxes are worse for the economy, worse for government revenue, and worse for basically every purpose except giving people a feeling of vindictive satisfaction.

There is a tax rate below which it stops just being better for everyone, but we certainly haven't seen that point in our lifetimes.

You will note that I make no argument as to what the capital gains tax rate should be. I'm familiar with the concept of the Laffer Curve, and I'm not an economist so I don't venture any particular opinion on what the optimum should be, especially not without having any look at the numbers. I simply provided relevant, factual context to the 47% figure that was mentioned.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Progressive tax rates are evil. Do not punish people for doing well at their work, it disincentivizes it, especially when combined with welfare programs.

It's by far the simplest way to keep taxes from fucking with people at the bottom while using them a cudgel to the consolidation process. The critical detail of implementation is that the brackets are consecutive, making it diminishing returns rather than making it actively detrimental to get more.

There is in fact a limit to how much return is sensible for a given group to get from their work, because it is entirely possible for this to rise to the point where an organization can massively alter the function of the system purely by application of wealth, no corrupt interaction with the state needed. Bankrupting competitors with selling at a loss in their local operating area, payed for by profits in markets said competitor can't access, is a classic example.

Dealing with that by direct regulation secures the consolidation because those regulations turn into a minefield for the entrepreneur of modest origins, as the list of such things that must be forbidden is very long. The taxation strategy leaves the starting point of competitors noticeably more competitive by default purely based on their income scale.

And when you're setting the brackets based on this kind of reasoning, the answer for an individual is quite trivial: Pay it out to the employees who like you instead of taking the giant bag of money for yourself. Because there is no way in hell a lone person is getting into the punitive brackets without other people they work with they could share the money with tax-efficiently.

 

[Marduk]

Perhaps my left-leaning bias is showing but, I don't think there's a particular problem with reasonable taxes on wealthy individuals making above a certain income? Ideally, if they want to keep living in this country and reaping the benefits that come with living in this country, they shouldn't protest too loudly about a little government incentive to pay their fair share, imo...

The problem is that the people most eager to talk about fairness don't give a fuck about the long term economic consequences (which obviously exist) and have quite warped views on fairness to.
For starters when such "fairness" and "reasonableness" is discussed everyone who doesn't understand what the Laffer curve is and what is it for should leave the room.
Taxes are meant to provide funds to the government without damaging the economy much, not to satisfy socialist's sense of fairness.

 

[Rocinante]

It's at times like these that I wonder whether maybe all of the most overt, absurdly hard right posters on this forum are actually leftists in disguise.


What I want to know is why it seldom leads to superior outcomes. It'll be useful.

No.

You're a fake right winger, and a concern troll, and don't actually understand how right wingers think or work. It's quite obvious you aren't really one, and are just pretending, because you make it obvious that you don't understand right wing/conservative positions, while claiming that you're one of us.

Left and right can agree on the point that the rich often enough avoid their taxes, because they can afford the lawyers to exploit the loopholes.

Where the left and right differ is in the solution. The left's solution tends to be more regulation and higher tax rates. This generally hurts the middle and upper middle classes, and small to medium businesses, while the rich and corporate overlords still avoid their taxes. It's an iron weight chained the the legs of the economy.

Meanwhile, the right tends to lean towards solutions that look more like closing off loopholes, eliminating harmful regulations that are suffocating the economy, and instituting flat tax rates that are fair and Harder to weasel out of with lawyers. This option cuts the chains that are holding back the economy, will result in middle and upper middle classes having more money and power in their daily lives (the real problem for the left,) and will generate more tax revenue.

Just because we agree that there's a problem, doesn't mean that we're the same as leftists, because our solutions are quite different.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Just because we agree that there's a problem, doesn't mean that we're the same as leftists, because our solutions are quite different.

You're just another member of the same camp. You want to fight capitalism, don't you? You hate all who are richer than you, don't you? You think the rich only gain wealth because they exploit the working class, don't you?

You're just leftists that are LARPing as right wingers because of some minor squabbles over doctrine. Your enemies are the same, your goals are the same, and even your methods are the same.

Because what do you think, that leftists don't seethe over tax loopholes? That they don't hate rich people not paying taxes they aren't obligated to pay? That they don't also ignore how the rich pay taxes far out of proportion to what they get out of it?

It's just the same class conflict rhetoric in a new bottle. You can never defeat the left if you're just a minor fringe of the left.

If you want to win, be a Conservative, not a heretic of Marxism.