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Marduk

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Yeah, sure, fuck property rights. 😂
I care about citizen's property rights. Not foreign government's property rights. It's not like i'll ever turn into a foreign government. Don't worry so much, i have good news for you, you certainly won't wake up one day as a foreign government. Trust me.

Yeah, sure, you are anti-neolib now.
I will believe that. 😂
Yup, you and whatever weirdo political faction you stand for don't have a monopoly on that.
 
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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I care about citizen's property rights. Not foreign government's property rights. It's not like i'll ever turn into a foreign government. Don't worry so much, i have good news for you, you certainly won't wake up one day as a foreign government. Trust me.
It is an SOE, it is no different than a regular company.It has a board of directors, stock and investors, like any other company.
Now, on principal I am willing to agree with you that going nuts with essential utilities might not be a good idea, but zhe germans should have thought about that when they privatized E.ON.

Also, there are many examples of countries owning SOEs that are not complete basket cases, like the various nordic countries, for instance.
As long as the cat catches mice then I don't care about the color.
If they provide quality services to the customers, MAKE MONEY, and do not suck at the public teat while competing in the free market, I don't care if SOEs diversify abroad.
Fortum actually pays a decent dividend.

Yup, you and whatever weirdo political faction you stand for don't have a monopoly on that.
And I am still waiting for you to prove that those evil Finns wish ill of the Germans and that they will somehow damage the country's interests or their customers' interests.

Must be all that Metal music and Vodka they are drinking.
 
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Marduk

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It is an SOE, it is no different than a regular company.It has a board of directors, stock and investors, like any other company.
And some of these have loyalties to a foreign government, as opposed to personal economic interest. Which may cause them to make decisions that make no sense except from the perspective of that foreign government's political interests.
Now, on principal I am willing to agree with you that going nuts with essential utilities might not be a good idea, but zhe germans should have thought about that when they privatized E.ON.
Doing dumb shit is no reason to stick to doing dumb shit in perpetuity.
Also, there are many examples of countries owning SOEs that are not complete basket cases, like the various nordic countries, for instance.
So? Just because some can for now is no argument to trust others forever.
As long as the cat catches mice then I don't care about the color.
If they provide quality services to the customers, MAKE MONEY, and do not suck at the public teat while competing in the free market, I don't care if SOEs diversify abroad.
Fortum actually pays a decent dividend.
Make money for who, that is the question.
And I am still waiting for you to prove that those evil Finns wish ill of the Germans and that they will somehow damage the country's interests or their customers' interests.

Must be all that Metal music and Vodka they are drinking.
By nature Finnish government cares about Finland's interest more than Germany's or it's citizen's and will put the former above the latter if push comes to shove. And if it's not, then it's not doing its job.
 
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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
RDS-induced nonsense.
Ah, more inconsistent double-think worthy of Orwell.

First off, utilities, owing to their position, are often very heavily regulated, but you should probably know that already.

Second, mind explaining the hypothetical scenario where Finland's interests somehow require it to somehow fuck over German electricity consumers without the other shareholders in the company, among which the German federal government is, and the various German regulatory bodies and the German consumer and the financial media not noticing and raising a stink about it?

As to who gets the dividends, well, the stockholders do, obviously.

I am sorely tempted to dig out one of your many, many statements from before, the ones where you call me communist/socialist/statist, etc, just to illustrate the insane amounts of mental gymnastics and contortionism you are engaging in, bashibozuk.
 
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Marduk

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Ah, more inconsistent double-think worthy of Orwell.

First off, utilities, owing to their position, are often very heavily regulated, but you should probably know that already.
Which makes it even less of a difference whether the government deciding said regulations just outright owns them or not. Might aswell make the de facto control official.
Second, mind explaining the hypothetical scenario where Finland's interests somehow require it to somehow fuck over German electricity consumers without the other shareholders in the company, among which the German federal government is, and the various German regulatory bodies and the German consumer and the financial media not noticing and raising a stink about it?
How about the not so hypothetical scenario where most of Europe now wants to buy energy resources from European suppliers, like Norway, and so Germany and Finland are competing for who will get to buy the finite amount of them at the lowest price possible.
So the Finnish government stakeholder now has a conflict of interests - should he act in a way that increases the chances of the German company winning, or Finnish competition winning? One gets German customers cheaper gas, the other gets Finnish customers cheaper gas. But only Finnish customers vote for the person who can appoint or fire the guy making these decisions...
I am sorely tempted to dig out one of your many, many statements from before, the ones where you call me communist/socialist/statist, etc, just to illustrate the insane amounts of mental gymnastics and contortionism you are engaging in, bashibozuk.
Your foreign language introductions are nowhere near as clever as you think, but thank you for explaining to all of us who you are.
 
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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Zero knowledge of corporate governance demonstrated.
Might I suggest you go read some stuff about corporate governance and how the actual stock market works?

Your foreign language introductions are nowhere near as clever as you think, but thank you for explaining to all of us who you are.
I daresay that my English, learned from Cartoon Network and Baen's Free Library, appears to be much better than yours.
Please, do tell the class, who am I?

I know that you are an alleged rightwinger and and allegedly pro-freedom and pro free market, and Polish and yet you are just fine with a pack of German Socialists and Greens stealing other people and other governments' property.
 

Marduk

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Might I suggest you go read some stuff about corporate governance and how the actual stock market works?
I'm guessing if you knew you would have told us instead of being evasive like that.

I daresay that my English, learned from Cartoon Network and Baen's Free Library, appears to be much better than yours.
Please, do tell the class, who am I?
A clown who thinks that he is being clever by insulting people in a language most people on the forum don't know.
Also this:

I know that you are an alleged rightwinger and and allegedly pro-freedom and pro free market, and Polish and yet you are just fine with a pack of German Socialists and Greens stealing other people and other governments' property.
>stealing
Lol. I don't think "negotiating" and "buying" are terms that belong in the activity of stealing.
>stealing other people
OMG, Germany is bringing back slavery. Wow, such English. Much grammar.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I'm guessing if you knew you would have told us instead of being evasive like that.
Or maybe I think that you should, you know, enlighten yourself about stocks and company ownership and utilities regulations before you start posting your uninformed opinion.

Then again, we have Marduk, the universal expert on everything here....

The fact that entity A owns over 50% of entity B does not mean that entity B just has to bend over and do whatever entity A says.

Corporate Director Elections and Majority Withhold Votes

We also have this thing called regulation on both the way companies are governed, or the rights of shareholders, and on the whole utilities industry itself.

Once again, the RDS is making you see storms in a tea cup.
 

Marduk

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Or maybe I think that you should, you know, enlighten yourself about stocks and company ownership and utilities regulations before you start posting your uninformed opinion.

Then again, we have Marduk, the universal expert on everything here....

The fact that entity A owns over 50% of entity B does not mean that entity B just has to bend over and do whatever entity A says.

Corporate Director Elections and Majority Withhold Votes

We also have this thing called regulation on both the way companies are governed, or the rights of shareholders, and on the whole utilities industry itself.

Once again, the RDS is making you see storms in a tea cup.
That's a lot of "cans" with certain caveats, especially applying to private ownership, not a lot of "actually applies to this case for sure", when both of the parties here are more or less influential governments with more or less political pull in all these organizations, and power to go as far as actually rewrite regulations in their respective legal codes if need be.
Thank you for your non-arguments. Now fuck off.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
That's a lot of "cans" with certain caveats, especially applying to private ownership, not a lot of "actually applies to this case for sure", when both of the parties here are more or less influential governments with more or less political pull in all these organizations, and power to go as far as actually rewrite regulations in their respective legal codes if need be.
Thank you for your non-arguments. Now fuck off.
Uniper, Fortum and I think E.ON, too, are all publicly traded, which means that they have to adhere to all the relevant regulations and processes, your straw grasping argument is null and void.
 

Marduk

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Uniper, Fortum and I think E.ON, too, are all publicly traded, which means that they have to adhere to all the relevant regulations and processes, your straw grasping argument is null and void.
Yes, and if they don't, you can sue the government. You might even win. Might. Good luck with that. The lawyers will win for sure no matter what though. Declaring that my argument is "straw grasping, null and void" doesn't make it so outside of your delusional mind.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist Muskov indoctrination, Communist Muskov subversion, and the international Communist Muskov conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Can you go argue with yourself in a more private place?
Arguing with myself, or with a brick wall, is usually more productive than arguing with you, you really need to detox from that Sarcophagus. 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
You just can't stop with the whataboutism.
 

Marduk

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Arguing with myself, or with a brick wall, is usually more productive than arguing with you, you really need to detox from that Sarcophagus. 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
You just can't stop with the whataboutism.
Your whole argument here is a big chunk of whataboutism by the way.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
uno.jpg
uno.jpg


Yeah, dude, suureee, suuureee....me having to explain to you how these things called publicly traded companies and utility regulations and the difference between outright control and majority stock ownership is just whataboutism.... 😂
 

Marduk

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uno.jpg


Yeah, dude, suureee, suuureee....me having to explain to you how these things called publicly traded companies and utility regulations and the difference between outright control and majority stock ownership is just whataboutism.... 😂
No, you thinking you are smart and that by quoting common wiki articles you are "educating" someone is just you being a self-absorbed asshole, not whataboutism.
I was referring about the whole earlier governments negotiating buying energy companies from other governments thing, but i see that you are up to your usual asshole drama sheniangans instead. Get new meme pics you sad, boring sod.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
No, you thinking you are smart and that by quoting common wiki articles you are "educating" someone is just you being a self-absorbed asshole, not whataboutism.
Yup, sure, having an actual understanding on what a publicly traded company is, and what the stock market is, and what special regulatory pressure there is on utilities despite them being publicly traded for profits is "just quoting common wikis".

😂
 

Marduk

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Yup, sure, having an actual understanding on what a publicly traded company is, and what the stock market is, and what special regulatory pressure there is on utilities despite them being publicly traded for profits is "just quoting common wikis".

😂
Yes, it is. And it's a case of you yet again trying to appear smart by quoting economy 101, when you know damn well that these things are most applicable to plain private entities without particular connections, and it gets iffier when there are national governments involved the case, especially two of them.
 

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