49ersfootball
Well-known member
Howdy from the Alamo City. I've heard Biden disparaged Netanyahu in private & called him an asshole.
The press conference with King Abdullah of Jordan was laughable yesterday afternoon.
Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel
- Thread starter Marduk
- Start date
The press conference with King Abdullah of Jordan was laughable yesterday afternoon.
Hamas was bunch of nobodies who teach how to pray,when Mossad made them powerfull.Soviets arleady were superpower - althought i agree,that only becouse Wall Street pay Trocky and later buyed stolen tsar,church and private owners gold from them.
But,it was act of Wall Street,not USA.
mrttao
Well-known member
1. USSR was not a superpower yet at the time USA supported them.
2. Hamas was never about "teaching to pray". Hamas literally means "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya" which translates to "Islamic Resistance Movement"
3. You under estimate the amount of support given to USSR by USA
4. The relative quantity of financial support at early stages is irrelevant
(I don't even know if mossad did ever support hamas, but it won't surprise me considering how corrupt intelligence services are. so I won't bother asking you for sources on that).
Regardless, it does not matter what relative support was early on.
Today, right now, Hamas i not controlled by israel.
King Arts
Well-known member
I mean I wouldn't say Mossad is corrupt for supporting Hamas back in the day(Mossad is probably corrupt but not necessarily for that) but Mossad giving aid to Hamas could be an intelligent thing. Let's pretend your are prime minister of Israel and I'm the head of Mossad and I come to you with this plan.
"Hello sir, my agency has been thinking of a way to fracture the Palestinian resistance movements especially the PLO. We think it might be wise to encourage conflict among them which would keep them occupied fighting each other instead of planning attacks on us. There is a small Islamist rebel group named Hamas while they are more radical than the PLO they are weaker and smaller and hostile to each other. We think it might be a good idea to give clandestine aid to Hamas so that they can match the PLO in strength and fight each other. We would like to you agree to this plan. Is it acceptable?"
That is logical divide and conquer. It just did not work out in Israel's favor this time.
mrttao
Well-known member
That would be their logic behind doing such a thing. but:
1. Propping up a group of fanatic death cultists who explicitly want you genocided is like a bioweapon. You do not unleash such a thing on your enemies as it can backfire, the risks are too big.
2. It explicitly involves supporting a MORE hostile to you group to weaken a less hostile one.
3. it still involves treason against your own country as you are supporting terrorists who are its mortal enemies. And that support WILL involve deaths of your own people.
Just like how JFK was opposed to the CIA operation where they planned to do false flag against USA to give justification for war.
4. Israel is a democratic country and as such the govt is allegedly serving the people. And there is no way the populace at large would be ok with such a method/plan.
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
When did anything worked in Israel's favor ? They tried to blew up one of their allies in 1967. They couldn't fucking even get the actual mastermind of Black October. They helped Syrian Wahabis and Salafis and they were only moderate in terms of fighting.
1.In 1941 they were.Genocidal superpower,but still.
2.Yes,it means it - but when Mossad helped them,they were teaching how to pray.All fighting was done by Fatah.
3.No,they wasted on it 5 Manhattan Projects costs,if i remember correctly.Thanks to that Poland was enslaved.
4.Not only financial,they let them bring weapons to Gaza and defeat Fatah there.They were tools and still are tools - only question is,who is their owner - still Mossad,or somebody else?
Becouse their attack was suicidal - they are dying in Gaza now for somebody else.Considering how Natanjahu crimes are forgotten now,maybe for him.
Or China,Putin,Iran - all of them profited from that.
All i am sure that it is not Poland - our secret services suck,and we are german serfs now anyway.
Can you explain how Israel harming innocent Palestinian civilians is any different from the allies harming innocent civilians of Nazi Germany, and why does it somehow make Israel's war effort less just?
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
Not weirder than what Israel's "writes".
Well you clearly no longer have any sort or moral ethical high ground. If you had any, considering the power disparity.
@King Arts is not even talking about WW2, or Nazi Germany. Why bring that one up ? Not mention that, as far as I remember, the Wallies bombings didn't significantly affect the outcome of the war considering how both fronts saw fighting until the very last minute.
King Arts
Well-known member
It’s not that different. Though again Palestine is not Nazi germany. And in in ww2 the Allie’s were not totally innocent. Germany was 90 percent wrong while the western allies were around 10 percent.
Palestine doesn't have the power of Nazi Germany, but they definitely have similarities in ideology and the atrocities they're willing to carry out.
Also it's definitely possible to claim Israel is 10% wrong as well, to Palestine's 90%.
I think you're just cementing my comparison. It would have been unthinkable to demand that the allies stop their attack for the sake of German civilians, and I don't understand why the same logic shouldn't apply to Israel/Gaza now. If the same mentality of worrying about civilian deaths before all was in effect in the 1940s we would have been stuck with half of Europe being led by a Nazi dictatorship to this day.
DarthOne
☦️
Doubtful. Nazism wouldn’t have lasted past the 60’s or 70’s. It has too many flaws- in fact I suspect the only reason communism last until the 1990’s is due to Wall Steet bankrolling them in the 20’s-40’s and the fact they swallowed up half of Europe thanks to FDR.
Reality,my uneducated friend.
Becouse Mossad really help Hamas take over Gaza.And their attack really was suicidal for them - but helped China,Putin,Iran and Natanjahu.
So,somebody among them own Hamas now.
True,according to what i read germans started war becouse they knew,that otherwise they bancrupt about 1944.Even after stealing from Europe and genociding us,like they planned,they would still fall becouse of economy.
And Wall Street first let soviet win by delivering Rtocky&thugs to Russia,and later gave them money and technology.
Only reason why they fall is becouse Reagan stopped that madness/transfer of technology/ and made oil cheap.
That,with Star Wars/even when they would not work/,broke soviets in few years.
You may be right, but I'm not an expert on this issue and the details are besides the point anyway, almost anyone would agree that defeating the Nazis was a just and worthy cause, and nobody thinks twice about the devastation the war caused in Europe because it's seen as justified to stop the Nazis.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
If it had 'only' lasted to the 60's/70's, it would have killed far more people, and without the sharp, comprehensive ideological defeat of fascism, and decades of children being indoctrinated into it, even if it failed, you'd still have hundreds of thousands to millions of hardline adherents.
And this is presuming they did not develop nuclear weapons, which they were painfully close to throughout the later years of WWII, and allied intelligence was desperately trying to prevent. If there had been hot war on and the Nazis got their hands on nukes, the amount of destruction would have been mind-boggling, and almost certainly ended with American nuclear weapons being the tool that ended the war in Europe.
If the nazis had been willing to nuke the allies, but the allies weren't willing to nuke the nazis, then horrific amounts of Europe might have ended up under mushroom clouds.
UNRWA should be disbanded, every member arrested and interrogated for Hamas activities. Multiple times since 2015 Teachers have been caught by UN inspectors teaching Jihad. Teaching Newton's Second Law in the context of a slingshot striking an Israeli head. 1200 workers are outright members of Hamas using UNRWA as cover for weapons smuggling. UNRWA facilities allowed Hamas artillery to use them. This is a Syrian Palestinian organization with European managers to coordinate with outside organizations.
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DarthOne
☦️
True enough.
King Arts
Well-known member
The reason that I said Nazi Germany was 90 percent in the wrong but the UK was 10 percent wrong, and conversely the Germans were 10 percent in the right. Was because Germany did not just launch a random war based on nothing. Like for instance if tomorrow the US launced nukes at NATO that would be 100 percent in the wrong there is no justification.
But Germany does have cause to fight with England and France for their treatment after ww1 and to undo the Versailles treaty. If Germany did not try to wipe out the Jews and Slavs, and enslave the surviving Slavs in eastern Europe. Then Germany would not have been evil in that case you could argue they are equal to or better than the Allies. But they did do genocide so that point is moot.
The reason that Palestine isn't 90% in the wrong is because the issue is much more complicated(you can argue Hamas is 90% in the wrong as they do want to wipe out Jews) but Palestinians do have a claim to the land(so do Jews calm down this is why it's complicated) and the Israeli security forces DO sometimes go overboard, no not accidently killing someone in a bombing, I give Israel passes for collateral because that's how wars work. But the IDF and settlers do sometimes go past the territory they currently have and go for more, and have used the Hamas attacks in Gaza to do crackdowns in the West Bank which is not where the fighting is. Also in some instances where some Palestinians do attacks, the Israelis DO do collective punishment.
If the circumstances were reversed are you saying you wouldn't be angry at Israel, and supportive of resistance? I mean can you honestly tell me that if some Jews killed three people and then the security forces of those people arrested hundreds of Jews including yourself who had nothing to do with it. Would you just say "Well they were only doing their job to protect their people?" I have doubts I think you'd say something like this "Those fucking antisemitic racist bastards arresting all of us for what 2 people did! This is bullshit!"
Also I have never said that Israel should stop it's attacks on Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group Israel is justified in taking them out, sometimes civillian casualties are unavoidable, however Israel should not go after civilians on purpose or be overly callous.