High School, College and University Cringe MegaThread

[LordsFire]

Because we can't always be sure they are actual rapists. Hence why even the Bible, written by people with less regard for human rights than even the craziest radical on this forum, commanded the creation of courts of justice.

I find this to be a kind of hilarious statement, given the modern conception of 'human rights' was originally based out of the Bible.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

I find this to be a kind of hilarious statement, given the modern conception of 'human rights' was originally based out of the Bible.

No, no it wasn't. If it were, we would still be taking sex slaves from vanquished nations and wiping out entire communities.

The Bible is one of the most bloodthirsty documents in history, and makes Muhammad at his worst look positively benign.

 

[King Arts]

I find this to be a kind of hilarious statement, given the modern conception of 'human rights' was originally based out of the Bible.

No it's not. No where in the Bible will you find the term "human rights"

There are adjacent things where all humans are guaranteed protection and the leader/king/government can't harm the people without it being unjust.

But those protections are not what you would call your rights. What you call rights are nowhere in the Bible or Christianity and if you are willing to engage on it I can show you why. Just tell me what do you consider rights and what are not and we will see.

 

[Vyor]

No, no it wasn't. If it were, we would still be taking sex slaves from vanquished nations and wiping out entire communities.

The Bible is one of the most bloodthirsty documents in history, and makes Muhammad at his worst look positively benign.

wah???

 

[LordsFire]

No, no it wasn't. If it were, we would still be taking sex slaves from vanquished nations and wiping out entire communities.

The Bible is one of the most bloodthirsty documents in history, and makes Muhammad at his worst look positively benign.

I see someone has been taught the fedora-atheist take on the Old Testament.

I'm also curious as to how poorly-read you must be if you think the Bible is one of the most bloodthirsty documents in history. It certainly has some very violent sections in it, but by almost any metric you care to use, it's small change compared to plenty of others.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

I see someone has been taught the fedora-atheist take on the Old Testament.

I've read it.

it's small change compared to plenty of others.

The founding myth of Biblical Israel is about how they committed genocide on anyone and everyone who came between them and their Promised Land, with God directly withdrawing favor if they aren't genocidal enough (ask poor Saul). Biblical prophets and patriarchs regularly keep sex slaves, commit polygamy, and lead genocidal campaigns against anyone and everyone they can. Practically every major hero is a mass murderer and slaver. All that between whining whenever anyone gives them a fraction of the pain they inflict on anyone too weak to resist their murderous conquests.

Muhammad is practically merciful in comparison, considering how he at least offers conversion rather than just destroying everyone who isn't part of his tribe. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say about Muhammad.

 

[LordsFire]

I've read it.


The founding myth of Biblical Israel is about how they committed genocide on anyone and everyone who came between them and their Promised Land, with God directly withdrawing favor if they aren't genocidal enough (ask poor Saul). Biblical prophets and patriarchs regularly keep sex slaves, commit polygamy, and lead genocidal campaigns against anyone and everyone they can. Practically every major hero is a mass murderer and slaver. All that between whining whenever anyone gives them a fraction of the pain they inflict on anyone too weak to resist their murderous conquests.

Muhammad is practically merciful in comparison, considering how he at least offers conversion rather than just destroying everyone who isn't part of his tribe. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say about Muhammad.

You claim to have read it, then directly contradict yourself.

1. A lot of people in the Bible did bad things. These are generally explicitly called out as bad things, and when not explicitly called out, they are shown to be bad things through the consequences that came from them.

2. You're leaving out a couple key things about what the Israelites were commanded to do when they came into the promised land. If you've read it, can you think of what those things might have been?

3. Yes, Saul was actually commanded to wipe a specific people group out completely. He wasn't punished for being merciful, he was punished for being greedy in what he refused to destroy.


The real meat of this is #2, and I'm curious how you'll respond to that.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

A lot of people in the Bible did bad things. These are generally explicitly called out as bad things, and when not explicitly called out, they are shown to be bad things through the consequences that came from them.

The genocide isn't called out as a bad thing. Not committing enough genocide is.

You're leaving out a couple key things about what the Israelites were commanded to do when they came into the promised land. If you've read it, can you think of what those things might have been?

"I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you."

 

[LordsFire]

The genocide isn't called out as a bad thing. Not committing enough genocide is.

"I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you."

Yes, the command was 'destroy or drive out.' That's one of the things.

Now what other thing might be key here, perhaps something to do with these pagan gods?

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Yes, the command was 'destroy or drive out.' That's one of the things.

Now what other thing might be key here, perhaps something to do with these pagan gods?

Stop being coy. Do you mean to say that the genocide was worth it because it stopped the worship of other gods?

 

[TheRejectionist]

Because we can't always be sure they are actual rapists. Hence why even the Bible, written by people with less regard for human rights than even the craziest radical on this forum, commanded the creation of courts of justice.

Once their guilt is established in a fair court of law, feel free to kill them as you wish. That's between God and you.

Fair enough. I will admit I am bit too extreme on this matter because of a family that happened something this.

I shouldn't be given the example that our sociopolitical adversaries use against us, namely kangaroo courts.

So, thank you.

The genocide isn't called out as a bad thing. Not committing enough genocide is.

"I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you."

I remember this is a quote I saw often by YouTube Evangelicals and fellow travellers for the existence of Israel.

 

[Doomsought]

I am sorry... exactly how it's a bad thing to lynch actual rapists ? Even if they committed it when they were young and below 18, that doesn't excuse the behavior. In fact, from a certain perspective, it makes it worse. Because if they thought it would be ok when they are below 18, imagine what they would think it is ok if they grow up.

Or what sort of upbringing they had to think just because they could they did it.

Historically its the sort of thing that while technically illegal, got mercy from the jury for the vigilante.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Historically its the sort of thing that while technically illegal, got mercy from the jury for the vigilante.

Yeah but @SoliFortissimi was right on to call bullshit om my keyboard "vigilante" zeal. A tribunal first.

 

[Vyor]

Stop being coy. Do you mean to say that the genocide was worth it because it stopped the worship of other gods?

Define genocide

 

[LordsFire]

Stop being coy. Do you mean to say that the genocide was worth it because it stopped the worship of other gods?

I'm not being coy. I'm looking to see if you actually understand there is a 'why' beyond them 'merely' being pagans.

The Perrizites, Jebusites, Canaanites, etc, followed abhorrent practices, and this was explicitly part of why God was having Israel either destroy them or drive them out. What were these practices?

Oh, just things like sacrificing their children to idols.

And not 'just' sacrificing them, the way they did it was pretty horrific too. They'd build an idol in the form of a brass or bronze statue, seated, with its arms stretched out over its lap. Then they'd light a fire inside of the idol, so that it was just about glowing hot.

Then they'd put a child into the arms, and have it slowly burn to death.

About eighty years ago, we had war crimes trials punishing people for less terrible things, and the sentence for that was almost always death.


God giving the land to the Israelites wasn't merely a matter of Him fulfilling a promise to the descendants of Abraham, it was also a matter of meting out punishment for centuries of unrepentant sin on the part of the people driven out. You can argue that you don't think the crime merited the punishment, but it happened for a reason, and to try to remove it from the context of those horrific reasons is dishonest.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Oh, just things like sacrificing their children to idols.

"We must kill all the children to save the children" is meme logic. Unless, of course, all you want to say is that I shouldn't care what happens to them because they are bad people and deserve it.

No. Murder is wrong, and mass murder all the more so. Trying to excuse that is barbaric.

 

[LordsFire]

"We must kill all the children to save the children" is meme logic. Unless, of course, all you want to say is that I shouldn't care what happens to them because they are bad people and deserve it.

No. Murder is wrong, and mass murder all the more so. Trying to excuse that is barbaric.

First, you are yet again ignoring the 'drive out' part of 'destroy or drive out.'

Second, living in the bronze age, how would you have solved the problem?

 

[Zachowon]

Since when is war mass murder?

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

It's mass murder whenever it helps someone win an argument.

 

[King Arts]

First, you are yet again ignoring the 'drive out' part of 'destroy or drive out.'

Second, living in the bronze age, how would you have solved the problem?

I see you pivoted away from the whole rights thing. Hope you realize you can’t show rights exist under Christianity.

Also you do know not every war even in the Bronze Age was a genocidal fight to the death their were vassals and nations turned into puppets also people were taken as slaves.

Since when is war mass murder?

Since you are killing children and women, and those not fighting?