How capable would NATO be of countering a conventional assault on multiple fronts by its enemies against both them and other parties?

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Exactly what it says, for this scenario assume Russia wins the war in Ukraine within the next year or so and doesn't move back to a non-war economy but instead Putin attempts to go through with plans to win back the Baltic states after a year or two of rest in 2026-2027 in a conventional ground invasion betting that Western Europe and the U.S. won't honor NATO defense agreements and will wimp out on the issue. (Don't argue this)

Also assume also that diplomacy Russia enters into secret agreements with many of the U.S. adversaries such as China, Iran, North Korea and perhaps Venezuela to not necessarily fight NATO as a whole but to all jointly take back disputed territories or assault old enemies. (Iran attacks Israel, Venezuela goes after Guyana, North Korea launches an assault on South Korea, China goes after Taiwan.)

How does the U.S. and NATO handle that assuming nukes don't fly?
 
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Total War that leads to world War 3 woth the western world bringing back drafts.
 
Exactly what it says, for this scenario assume Russia wins the war in Ukraine within the next year or so and doesn't move back to a non-war economy but instead Putin attempts to go through with plans to win back the Baltic states after a year or two of rest in 2026-2027 in a conventional ground invasion betting that Western Europe and the U.S. won't honor NATO defense agreements and will wimp out on the issue. (Don't argue this)

Also assume also that diplomacy wise Russia enters into secret agreements with many of the U.S. adversaries such as China, Iran, North Korea and perhaps Venezuela to not necessarily fight NATO as a whole but to all jointly take back disputed territories or assault old enemies. (Iran attacks Israel, Venezuela goes after Guyana, North Korea launches an assault on South Korea, China goes after Taiwan.)

How does the U.S. and NATO handle that assuming nukes don't fly?
Total War that leads to world War 3 woth the western world bringing back drafts.
War economy sooner than draft i would say.
Even the easternmost half of the standing armies of EU-NATO would be enough to walk over the Russian military and make it regret their choices.
It's the naval side of things that would need a crash expansion to fight the war in East Asia and stop Gulf shenanigans from Iran.

Iran's invasion becomes a logistical clusterfuck on account of distance and shit infrastructure, think Russian Kyiv column, except with IAF abusing it overhead.
Venezuela gets ignored by western powers mostly until spare forces are available and then gets hammered with impunity, unless Brazil takes it upon itself to tell it no.
 
Russia and pals against essentially JUST the Baltic states? I honestly don't see it going well for the Baltics who would fall in short order since unlike Ukraine that can mine / entrench and etc. a lot of fields and forests, the Baltics just don't have that luxury and we've all seen how much Russia's Rules of Engagement include leveling civilian infrastructure and if there are any civilians occupying that infrastructure well... that's a risk they take.

And with the Baltics having given so much equipment to Ukraine while not having the industry to replace it I think they'd be worse off in this scenario than if Russia had invaded them in 2022 instead of Ukraine (under the same rules.)

What happens next is up to the EU individually and in whole i.e. if Poland still has its New Martial Law government and Western Europe is asking itself What Would Neville Chamberlain Do? because they really REALLY don't want to give any fks and France reserves it's right to nuke Germany if the Russians approach the Rhine.

But OTOH if Poland's military hasn't devolved into one designed to protect the junta rather than protecting the nation and France + Britain at least are prodded into militarization I don't see things going well for Russia in the longer term since while they would still probably take the Baltics through quantity with 'good enough' quality, the restrictions on NATO entering Russian and allied/'allied' territory would be gone and with it goes Byelorussia, occupied/puppet Ukraine and even western Russia itself.

Also even if the US has mostly cucked out for whatever reasons, they'd still probably have the B1 / B2 bomber fleets designed to fight the Cold War turned hot (unless they lost them underestimating China vs Taiwan) and thus ravage Russian logistics.

As for the other conflicts. Iran vs Israel remains either a proxy + airstrikes conflict of Hamas/Hezbollah vs Israel OR both countries are dealing with nuclear fallout since Iran has nuked Tel Aviv and in response Tehran is a glowing crater.

Venezuela has either lifted Guyana's oil lands off of it since Guyana has f all to defend itself OR Brazil has said no and Maduro's lizard brain is in self preservation mode. The end result is the price of oil goes up if Venezuela is successful since they want the oil but don't have the ability themselves to exploit it... and so they won't...

China has starved Taiwan into submission with the indefinite number of medium range missiles it has built for just such a conflict. Things do kinda suck for them though since the flow of goods through the Strait of Malacca has gone from lots to zilch... ditto Australia, ditto the entire Pacific since even if China is probably capable of enforcing a no go zone for its enemies a certain distance from its coast, it certainly doesn't have the ability to challenge the USN to keep the sea lanes open.

I gotta say that Best Korea vs South Korea doesn't happen though, Seoul and Pyongyang have renounced their claims on each other's territory and Tubby Leader isn't beholden enough to either Moscow or Beijing to do anything more than make money off arms and armament sales.
 
Exactly what it says, for this scenario assume Russia wins the war in Ukraine within the next year or so and doesn't move back to a non-war economy but instead Putin attempts to go through with plans to win back the Baltic states after a year or two of rest in 2026-2027 in a conventional ground invasion betting that Western Europe and the U.S. won't honor NATO defense agreements and will wimp out on the issue. (Don't argue this)

Also assume also that diplomacy wise Russia enters into secret agreements with many of the U.S. adversaries such as China, Iran, North Korea and perhaps Venezuela to not necessarily fight NATO as a whole but to all jointly take back disputed territories or assault old enemies. (Iran attacks Israel, Venezuela goes after Guyana, North Korea launches an assault on South Korea, China goes after Taiwan.)

How does the U.S. and NATO handle that assuming nukes don't fly?
The issue isn't size of forces of war-time production, but competence.

And the Russian military is not sufficiently competent to tangle with NATO.

The blitz towards Kyiv that Russia was trying to pull off in the opening moves of the invasion of Ukraine, especially trying to take Hostomel airport, was them trying to manage the sort of combined arms warfare that the US and NATO use as a matter of course.

The reason that serious ammunition shortages, especially artillery shells have become such a long-running issue in the war in Ukraine, is because it's such a long-running war.


So, in a conventional war, on the respective fronts you've mentioned:

If Russia tried to go to war with NATO, based on the capabilities we've seen them display in Ukraine?

Within 24 hours, most of their air force is wiped out.

Within 48 hours, all offensive drives have been utterly crushed, air and artillery support for NATO ground forces shattering Russian morale and unit cohesion.

Within 72 hours, most of Russia's ground-based air defenses have been systematically destroyed, and NATO has started wiping out all military bases within 2-300 miles of the border.

Withing 96 hours, surrender demands are being air-dropped directly over the Kremlin.

By the end of the first week, we're shifting assets out of theater because Russia is absolutely finished as a conventional military threat, and we need to focus more on the Chinese and the Koreans.


If Iran started launching on Israel, and sent a conventional assault force through Iraq, a combination of Israeli and Saudi air power, mostly the former, would do to Iran what NATO did to Russia, except even more easily, because the Russians have some competent soldiers, whereas the only thing the Iranians seem to be competent at is stirring up terrorists. The US wouldn't even need to get directly involved, though we'd probably have our E-War aircraft and some naval forces acting in support.


Venezuela vs Guyana is honestly a footnote. Venezuela is a poorly-run dictatorship; it probably lacks the competence to take significant parts of Guyana, but even if it does, as soon as a single Carrier task force can be dispatched to the area, they'll get completely wrecked. Given that the international norms about warfare are being thrown under the bus, and they don't have nukes, you could expect the gloves to come off and Maduro to end up very dead, along with most of his key supporters.


China and Korea attacking Taiwan and South Korea is the real question mark.

Most likely, they're not going to be even as competent as the Russians. While the Russian military is rotted out with corruption, they do have combat experience, and some of their soldiers are at least decently competent, even if their command structure is wretched beyond belief.

The Chinese haven't fought a war since the 80's, and as a result, while we know they suffer at least some of the usual issues with communist training, communist manufacturing, and communist doctrine, literally nobody actually knows just how bad it would all be.

They also have a lot more manpower than the Russians at this point, but the disadvantage of needing to attack across the Taiwan strait.

It's entirely possible that Taiwan manages to fend of China literally by themselves. Amphibious assaults are no joking matter, and Taiwan has been preparing for this conflict for more than seventy years. Their culture also actually supports competence as a concept, rather than suppressing it, and after what happened to Hong Kong, they know exactly what they'd suffer if they let the Communist boot descend upon their necks.

It's also entirely possible that the PLA is half as good as its propaganda suggests, and there's a real war to fight down there. China still probably won't win, but they'd probably manage to take part of Taiwan, and then half the military ships in the world would be sunk as missiles fly back and forth while they try to support the forces there.
 
You also have India slamming the brakes on Chinese oil shipments. It would be a golden opportunity for them to do so.
 
Exactly what it says, for this scenario assume Russia wins the war in Ukraine within the next year or so and doesn't move back to a non-war economy but instead Putin attempts to go through with plans to win back the Baltic states after a year or two of rest in 2026-2027 in a conventional ground invasion betting that Western Europe and the U.S. won't honor NATO defense agreements and will wimp out on the issue. (Don't argue this)

Also assume also that diplomacy Russia enters into secret agreements with many of the U.S. adversaries such as China, Iran, North Korea and perhaps Venezuela to not necessarily fight NATO as a whole but to all jointly take back disputed territories or assault old enemies. (Iran attacks Israel, Venezuela goes after Guyana, North Korea launches an assault on South Korea, China goes after Taiwan.)

How does the U.S. and NATO handle that assuming nukes don't fly?
Poland - we had 4 divisions,but gave tanks and other stuff to Ukraine,so now we have 2-3.
And ,we are ruled by german agent Tusk,who once was big Putin friend.

Germans and France have one division each,but they are hidden Putin allies.

Rest of Europe - maybe they could gather 2-3 divisions together.

So,Moscov could attack, and since germans nd France would join them,first take Poland,then backstab germans and take entire Europe.

I knew,that NATO have potential to fight - but,you need WILL TO FIGHT,too.
And Germany and France do not want to fight their Moscov friends - which mean,that german goverment in Poland would not fight,too.
 
The best case scenario for complying with Ukrainian-style kidnapping pressgangs is 3,600 casualties a day, with the worst being nuclear apocalypse and human extinction.
Or in other words, your chances of surviving attempting to violently overthrow the goverment in favor of literally anything else which doesn't want a World War are higher than those of surviving compliance. And every draft-age man should be coming to this realization simultaneously.
 
The best case scenario for complying with Ukrainian-style kidnapping pressgangs is 3,600 casualties a day, with the worst being nuclear apocalypse and human extinction.
LMAO, talk more person who knows jack shit about this stuff, we can all laugh at your scaremongering. No wonder you link to a full retard who want USA to abolish standing army, ROTFL. If that's the sort of military expertise your political side likes to show off, you deserve only mocking laughter, might as well erect a circus tent while you parrot this stuff.
Or in other words, your chances of surviving attempting to violently overthrow the goverment in favor of literally anything else which doesn't want a World War are higher than those of surviving compliance. And every draft-age man should be coming to this realization simultaneously.
Seen that article, that guy has no fucking clue what he's talking about, but he loves to repeat simping for Russia and advocating cucked foreign policy regarding it, all his 3 articles are about that, so fuck this shill, my equally aspirational prediction is that if Russian foreign propaganda apparatus has to hire such retards to do their shilling they are even more desperate and likely to get crushed.

Also nice fedpost btw.
 
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3600 casualties a day is an estimate thrown out as a worst case scenario.
Should I point out the 100k dead for Desert Storm?
 
Or what? The punishment for violent dissidence is death in a war, which are also the consequences of being drafted for war,
Can i have the crystal ball you are seeing these things in? I think it may be broken, my crystal ball is arch-wizard certified and it's not showing such bullshit.
so why not fight your actual enemies?
Telling everyone the Russia shills are retarded? Yes, i'm doing that.
 
Can i have the crystal ball you are seeing these things in? I think it may be broken, my crystal ball is arch-wizard certified and it's not showing such bullshit.
I just posted the link for some security state goon's prediction model report that a modern peer power war would be a massive slaughterhouse, as thought that wasn't blindly obvious from every single prior example.

Point is, to answer this thread's question, NATO isn't "capable." We don't have the industries, neoliberal capitalism sent them abroad since foreign slave labor was cheaper than the unionization that temporarily gave us a middle class. We don't have the cannon fodder, the closest our oligarchy comes to trying to motivate us is either saying that a peer power war with the guys they previously exported our entire actual economy to would inevitably beggar us leaving the army as a choice career for the destitute and desperate or threatening to reinstate slavery. And in any case, nuclear MAD, either the war ends inconclusively in a standoff where neither side actually wins for fear of backing their enemy into a corner and every death was pointless or everyone dies.
 
I just posted the link for some security state goon's prediction model report that a modern peer power war would be a massive slaughterhouse, as thought that wasn't blindly obvious from every single prior example.
Worst case scenario theorizing by some academic which in turn gets morphed into "best case scenario" by a clueless scaremongerer with a clear agenda.
Point is, to answer this thread's question, NATO isn't "capable." We don't have the industries,
Wow, turns out that suddenly all the Raytheons, Lockheed Martins and General Dynamics that the MIC whiners whine about all the bloody time don't exist at all when it comes to spreading NATO defeatism!
We could call it Schrodinger's Military Industrial Complex - it exists and is needlessly massive and powerful, or not at all, at the same time, depending on what retarded point someone wants to make about it.
neoliberal capitalism sent them abroad since foreign slave labor was cheaper than the unionization that temporarily gave us a middle class.
Specifically illegal to do when it comes to many elements of MIC on account of laws applying to MIC specifically.
Also, unionization gave us the middle class? Take this bullshit to commie, socialist and other labourite retards who actually want disarmament openly. Oh, wait, they don't want industry either now because the greens got cool on the left. Oh you poor orphan of yesteryear's socialism...
We don't have the cannon fodder, the closest our oligarchy comes to trying to motivate us is either saying that a peer power war with the guys they previously exported our entire actual economy to would inevitably beggar us leaving the army as a choice career for the destitute and desperate or threatening to reinstate slavery. And in any case, nuclear MAD, either the war ends inconclusively in a standoff where neither side actually wins for fear of backing their enemy into a corner and every death was pointless or everyone dies.
Yeah, the rhetorical shadow boxing about "escalation management" and worrywarting about "backing the enemy into a corner" should be left to the other side, because that (specifically their intel services) is where it is being advertised from, so they can have it back.
If they think they are being backed into a corner than it is about time for them to make concessions for peace and to avoid nuclear war, not the other way around.
 
Wow, turns out that suddenly all the Raytheons, Lockheed Martins and General Dynamics that the MIC whiners whine about all the bloody time don't exist at all when it comes to spreading NATO defeatism!
We could call it Schrodinger's Military Industrial Complex - it exists and is needlessly massive and powerful, or not at all, at the same time, depending on what retarded point someone wants to make about it.
I think the MiC exists, I just think it's more concerned with stealing my money through taxes or the printer and devaluation than actually winning wars. Which is why it overpays contractors and builds nonfunctional junk but doesn't concern itself with actual threats like outsourced industrial capacity.
 
I think the MiC exists, I just think it's more concerned with stealing my money through taxes or the printer and devaluation than actually winning wars. Which is why it overpays contractors and builds nonfunctional junk but doesn't concern itself with actual threats like outsourced industrial capacity.
Yeah, bleeding edge tech has a lot of issues, news at eleven, also bureaucracy sucks and is expensive, but if there was less then the lawyers, and also the likes of you, would be whining about things not being transparent enough.
Guess with geniuses like you in charge USA would be preparing to fight war like North Korea, with quantity over quality metrics being dominant, modern technology be damned, we need more tubes and hulls, who cares what to put on them, while the air force would be flying thousands of cheap F-5 clones instead of F-35's.
Also, a nice joke from an article you linked:
Astonishingly, the F-35 cannot dogfight, the crux of any fighter jet.
Ok, have you considered not throwing at me articles about warplanes written by people who clearly have less knowledge about them than the average War Thunder player?
 
Guess with geniuses like you in charge USA would be preparing to fight war like North Korea
Ironically actually yes, but not in the manner you described. I'd just classify weaponry as either "defensive MAD deterrence" or "actually intended for MiC money laundering and/or imperialistic invasions of foreigners". And we'd still be safe from invasion because as it turns out, all you actually need to avoid outright losing the game of geopolitics is the capacity to flip the board.
 
Ironically actually yes, but not in the manner you described. I'd just classify weaponry as either "defensive MAD deterrence" or "actually intended for MiC money laundering and/or imperialistic invasions of foreigners".
Yeah, people who whine about western countries " MiC money laundering and/or imperialistic invasions of foreigners" should be kept as far away as possible from anything defence related, because they clearly wouldn't recognize an "imperialistic invasion" if it kicked them in the ass.
And we'd still be safe from invasion because as it turns out, all you actually need to avoid outright losing the game of geopolitics is the capacity to flip the board.

Nope. Hybrid warfare says hi. Seems like you are about 70 years behind the times in terms of analysis of MAD and ways to get shit done "kinetically" around it, around the era of pentomic divisions and Davy Crockett. What you are proposing was the bleeding edge of strategic thought in the late 50's and early 60's, but things have changed a lot since then.
Not that North Korea simps from the left would know, they are even more backwards.
 

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