In Defense of Hate

[Free-Stater 101]

"Why aren't you protestant like me"

"No thanks, I'm already sold up on crazy."

Play the ball please, BattleGrinder is making points in good faith here and if you feel he's attacking Catholicism as not following what you both see as the relationship between Christ and the Church, then as a believer you have a duty to genuinely prove him and protestantism wrong.

Just insulting a religious branch isnt enough to prove it theologically wrong.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Play the ball please, BattleGrinder is making points in good faith here and if you feel he's attacking Catholicism as not following what you both see as the relationship between Christ and the Church, then as a believer you have a duty to genuinely prove him and protestantism wrong.

Just insulting a religious branch isn't enough to prove it theologically wrong.

I am bound to assent to the Teaching Authority of the Church, or I stop being Catholic. This is not up for debate. On my side are the Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Popes, Apostles, 2000 years of history. On his side are the reformers who suddenly got it right when everyone else got it wrong for a thousand years before.

LOL, no.

I say The Church teaches X.

He says he knows better, that the Church is contradicting the plain meaning of Our Lord's Word.

Either he is wrong or The Church is wrong. This isn't even worth engaging with.

Now if he wanted to show me where The Church has taught otherwise or condemned my position, then we would have something to talk about. For example, Saint Aquinas does teach that Hate is the opposite of Love, like Grinder holds. But Saint Augustine teaches otherwise as he (Aquinas) notes in his Summa. In matters of doubt, we are free to choose the teachings of whichever Father or Doctor we like.

 

[ShieldWife]

Fortunately, an atheist, I don’t have to care about either the Bible or the theology of the Catholic Church.

As for hatred, if it really is something good, then how is this hatred to manifest itself? How is hatred helpful. Of course, when you have enemies that are truly evil and that in fact hate you, it would be expected to dislike those enemies, to fear them, to have anger towards them and to use violence if need be to defeat them.

Hatred seems to be more than that. It seems that if you hate someone, you want to hurt them even past the point when they have the ability to hurt you, above and beyond merely retribution or deterrence, but to harm the object of your hatred.

If hatred is merely the appropriate reaction associated with a threat, then such a strong negative emotion isn’t needed, merely a reasonable amount of force to end the threat. Hatred can motivate actions that you shouldn’t be engaging in, both because those acts can ultimately be self defeating and because it make make you evil as well. The first step in opposing evil isn’t to hate evil but to not be evil yourself.

To quote Friedrich Nietzsche: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Fortunately, an atheist, I don’t have to care about either the Bible or the theology of the Catholic Church.

As for hatred, if it really is something good, then how is this hatred to manifest itself? How is hatred helpful. Of course, when you have enemies that are truly evil and that in fact hate you, it would be expected to dislike those enemies, to fear them, to have anger towards them and to use violence if need be to defeat them.

Hatred seems to be more than that. It seems that if you hate someone, you want to hurt them even past the point when they have the ability to hurt you, above and beyond merely retribution or deterrence, but to harm the object of your hatred.

If hatred is merely the appropriate reaction associated with a threat, then such a strong negative emotion isn’t needed, merely a reasonable amount of force to end the threat. Hatred can motivate actions that you shouldn’t be engaging in, both because those acts can ultimately be self defeating and because it make make you evil as well. The first step in opposing evil isn’t to hate evil but to not be evil yourself.

To quote Friedrich Nietzsche: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

That's why it is required not to let the passion of hatred overcome the rational faculty and the virtue of Charity, that desires the good end of the other. But if you fail to hate and despise that which is hateful and despises the good, you have failed to will the good.


Hatred in general is a vehement aversion entertained by one person for another, or for something more or less identified with that other. Theologians commonly mention two distinct species of this passion.

• One (odium abominationis, or loathing) is that in which the intense dislike is concentrated primarily on the qualities or attributes of a person, and only secondarily, and as it were derivatively, upon the person himself.
• The second sort (odium inimicitiae, or hostility) aims directly at the person, indulges a propensity to see what is evil and unlovable in him, feels a fierce satisfaction at anything tending to his discredit, and is keenly desirous that his lot may be an unmixedly hard one, either in general or in this or that specified way.

This second kind of hatred, as involving a very direct and absolute violation of the precept of charity, is always sinful and may be grievously so. The first-named species of hatred, in so far as it implies the reprobation of what is actually evil, is not a sin and may even represent a virtuous temper of soul. In other words, not only may I, but I even ought to, hate what is contrary to the moral law. Furthermore one may without sin go so far in the detestation of wrongdoing as to wish that which for its perpetrator is a very well-defined evil, yet under another aspect is a much more signal good. For instance, it would be lawful to pray for the death of a perniciously active heresiarch with a view to putting a stop to his ravages among the Christian people. Of course, it is clear that this apparent zeal must not be an excuse for catering to personal spite or party rancour. Still, even when the motive of one's aversion is not impersonal, when, namely, it arises from the damage we may have sustained at the hands of others, we are not guilty of sin unless besides feeling indignation we yield to an aversion unwarranted by the hurt we have suffered. This aversion may be grievously or venially sinful in proportion to its excess over that which the injury would justify.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Hatred

In general, a vehement aversion entertained by one person for another, or for something more or less identified with that other

www.newadvent.org

 

[Aldarion]

Fortunately, an atheist, I don’t have to care about either the Bible or the theology of the Catholic Church.

As for hatred, if it really is something good, then how is this hatred to manifest itself? How is hatred helpful. Of course, when you have enemies that are truly evil and that in fact hate you, it would be expected to dislike those enemies, to fear them, to have anger towards them and to use violence if need be to defeat them.

Hatred seems to be more than that. It seems that if you hate someone, you want to hurt them even past the point when they have the ability to hurt you, above and beyond merely retribution or deterrence, but to harm the object of your hatred.

If hatred is merely the appropriate reaction associated with a threat, then such a strong negative emotion isn’t needed, merely a reasonable amount of force to end the threat. Hatred can motivate actions that you shouldn’t be engaging in, both because those acts can ultimately be self defeating and because it make make you evil as well. The first step in opposing evil isn’t to hate evil but to not be evil yourself.

To quote Friedrich Nietzsche: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

That, I think, depends on how you define hatred. You seem to define it as always overriding rational thought. I would disagree with that. Hatred is, to me, an extreme dislike or disgust - or more specifically, a combination of dislike, disgust, fear and anger. But said dislike can easily be a consequence of rational thought: as I have pointed out, if somebody or something is an existential threat to yourself or those you hold dear, then a hatred (as well as fear and anger) can be a perfectly rational and - I would say appropriate - reaction.

Problem is that it often also appears when one could argue is not appropriate, and more importantly, that it can override (and often determine) rational thought. But emotions such as love and sympathy (and empathy) can also be extremely dangerous if they override rational thought.

 

[ATP]

Polish philosopher, Józef Maria Bocheński,stated that there are 5 possible reaction to succesful evil people-
1.best people could pity them
2.slighty less could treat them with cold logic
3.Average could hold them in contept
4.slighty less feel anger
5.worst kind of people would join them

So,hate is something which feel people like me,who are nor saints nor scientists,but average dudes.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

@Aldarion Again, that is where I think you make an error. Just because something is a natural reaction, or can even stem from rational thought does not make it good nor a rational response. As you said it is extreme, and going to extreme is as many of the wise teacher says a vice- or even a sin. I am going to reiterate that it is being overcome, because it is being overcome. It is still letting your passions drive you. And further the problem for hatred is that it is self-justifying, the person who is hated need not deserve it, yet will still reap the same bitter harvest. And further since it is self-justifying, it allows one to do all sorts of terrible and unjustifiable things to other human beings and feel that we are 100% in the right- case and point the opposition.

 

[ATP]

@Aldarion Again, that is where I think you make an error. Just because something is a natural reaction, or can even stem from rational thought does not make it good nor a rational response. As you said it is extreme, and going to extreme is as many of the wise teacher says a vice- or even a sin. I am going to reiterate that it is being overcome, because it is being overcome. It is still letting your passions drive you. And further the problem for hatred is that it is self-justifying, the person who is hated need not deserve it, yet will still reap the same bitter harvest. And further since it is self-justifying, it allows one to do all sorts of terrible and unjustifiable things to other human beings and feel that we are 100% in the right- case and point the opposition.

That is why Bocheński consider it bad choice,but still better then following evil.
And,becouse it is passion driving people,it could hurt them more then their enemy.As roman gladiators said,"Ira est mort" if i remember correctly.

 

[ATP]

I found proof from Old testament why hatred to God enemies is good thing.Here :