Monarchs SI'ed back to 1848

[raharris1973]

1. What if Franz-Joseph's mind is Self-Inserted (SI) from the time of his death in 1916 to his body at the beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle his long life and reign differently?

2. What if Kaiser Wilhelm III from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into Frederick Wilhelm IV at the very beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle FWIV's remaining life and reign through 1861?

3. What if Louis Bonaparte is SI's from the time of his death in 1873 to his own body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, getting a "do-over"

4. What if Georges Clemenceau, on dying in 1929, is SI'ed into Louis Bonaparte's body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, thus putting him in a position to be favorite candidate for President of the French Republic and in a position to either reshape France's policy, and reshape the Bonaparte legacy, or retire the Bonaparte legacy through self-renunciation?

5. What if Kaiser Wilhelm from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into his own younger self upon taking the throne in 1888? What does he do differently, and the same, with his do-over?

6. What if upon his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler is SI'ed into either Franz-Joseph or Frederick Wilhelm IV in late February 1848?

7. What if Nicholas I on his death 1855 if SI'ed back into his own body in late February 1848? Let Austria hang? Help wreck it?

 

[WolfBear]

1. What if Franz-Joseph's mind is Self-Inserted (SI) from the time of his death in 1916 to his body at the beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle his long life and reign differently?

2. What if Kaiser Wilhelm III from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into Frederick Wilhelm IV at the very beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle FWIV's remaining life and reign through 1861?

3. What if Louis Bonaparte is SI's from the time of his death in 1873 to his own body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, getting a "do-over"

4. What if Georges Clemenceau, on dying in 1929, is SI'ed into Louis Bonaparte's body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, thus putting him in a position to be favorite candidate for President of the French Republic and in a position to either reshape France's policy, and reshape the Bonaparte legacy, or retire the Bonaparte legacy through self-renunciation?

5. What if Kaiser Wilhelm from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into his own younger self upon taking the throne in 1888? What does he do differently, and the same, with his do-over?

6. What if upon his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler is SI'ed into either Franz-Joseph or Frederick Wilhelm IV in late February 1848?

7. What if Nicholas I on his death 1855 if SI'ed back into his own body in late February 1848? Let Austria hang? Help wreck it?

1. Have someone more competent than Benedek lead the Austrian army at Konigsgratz in 1866.

2. Accept the throne from the gutter and then try weakening the German liberals one cut at a time.

3. Militarily intervene in the Austro-Prussian War on the Austrian side as soon as possible. Never trust Bismarck's promises of Prussian territory in exchange for French neutrality in this war. Bismarck is a fucking snake.

If that's not possible, then avoid the Franco-Prussian War at any cost.

4. The same as for #3.

5. Tell Franz Ferdinand not to go to Sarajevo in Jun 1914. If necessary, absolutely beg him not to do this. Also, not give Austria-Hungary a blank check during the July Crisis and if WWI still breaks out, block Hindy and Luddy from resuming USW in early 1917 at any cost.

6. Same as in #2. Except also combine as much anti-Semitism into this as possible. That's if Hitler is FW IV. If Hitler is Franz-Joseph, then I'm assuming that he would try running Austria as a German nation-state, all consequences be damned. Of course, he could also face a palace coup as a result of this sooner or later.

7. Militarily intervene on Hungary's behalf in 1848-1849. And completely avoid the Crimean War at almost any cost.

 

[raharris1973]

@WolfBear -

Were your responses what you think those people would realistically do, but what you, as their "lawyer" would recommend they do pursue their stated interests if they were in that situation? Or something in between?

I feel like this is not entirely *their* set of priorities.

1. Have someone more competent than Benedek lead the Austrian army at Konigsgratz in 1866.

Sure - but nothing else before then for Franz-Joseph? No reshuffling of internal political figures. No trying to preserve Schwarzenberg's health to preserve his life and service for the empire?

I could imagine Franz-Joseph, with or without Schwarzenberg, trying very hard to to prevent the Crimean War from happening, and if it did happen, very strongly considering a different diplomatic-military approach from OTL's, which left Austria pretty isolated. I also imagine F-J being interested in a stronger tax base for a stronger military throughout the 1850s, for potential real intervention in the Crimean War if it came down to it, and even more so to be able to deter or win the Franco-Austrian War/war of Italian independence.

Those are the kinds of moves I think would be obvious to F-J and would expect.

If he is imaginative, and I don't really see a reason to expect it, I could see him somehow, upon taking power in 1848, trying to ride revolutionary unificationist sentiments to support a Grossdeutsch solution or to become Emperor of the lands of the German Confederation, spinning off other Habsburg realms - Hungary-Galicia, Lombardy-Venezia, as separate territories from Austria-Bohemia, only connected to Austria in personal union, or hived off to his brothers like Maximilian. Again it's not really what I expect, but it is one option to take the German bull by the horns and ride it for over 60 years.

2. Accept the throne from the gutter and then try weakening the German liberals one cut at a time.

I can imagine Wilhelm doing that, and not having too hard a time getting the federal imperial constitution ultimately adopted to ensure at least as many prerogatives for him and his heirs as the 2nd Reich constitution of 1914. The system would probably be considered more liberal than reactionary for 1848, but the Kaiser could intervene, and really put his personal stamp on national policies for the remainder of his presumed lifetime through 1861, doing things like getting a headstart on an imperial navy and overseas colonialism, possibly picking sides in the Crimean War, with the rest of Europe and against Russia? - if that war is not butterflied away?

3. Militarily intervene in the Austro-Prussian War on the Austrian side as soon as possible. Never trust Bismarck's promises of Prussian territory in exchange for French neutrality in this war. Bismarck is a fucking snake.

If that's not possible, then avoid the Franco-Prussian War at any cost.

Agree that Louis Napoleon will see these as the biggest problems to "correct" at the time of his death. He might reconsider whether the Mexican adventure was worth it. He might even consider whether the Crimean War and anti-Austrian, pro-Italian wars were worth it.

There is a chance that if he uses his replay to focus on policing Prussia and Germany, and does it overzealously to the point being seen as the bully of Rhineland and Belgium, that he could end up being seen as a European menace worse than in OTL, and meet a downfall for different reasons than OTL.

4. The same as for #3.

Or worse. Clemenceau or Marshal Foch would be likely possessed of a monomaniacal anti-Prussianism. It could work to provide direct protection against Prussia, but at the cost of possibly making all the other European powers, - Britain, Russia, Austria, Spain, Netherlands, Italian states, mistakenly think Paris is reviving the continental ambitions of Napoleon I.

5. Tell Franz Ferdinand not to go to Sarajevo in Jun 1914. If necessary, absolutely beg him not to do this. Also, not give Austria-Hungary a blank check during the July Crisis and if WWI still breaks out, block Hindy and Luddy from resuming USW in early 1917 at any cost.

Wilhelm might be interested in altering his early diplomacy with Russia, or gearing up for an earlier war the Russians or the French during the Dreyfuss Affair. Or accelerating submarine development within the Navy.

6. Same as in #2. Except also combine as much anti-Semitism into this as possible. That's if Hitler is FW IV. If Hitler is Franz-Joseph, then I'm assuming that he would try running Austria as a German nation-state, all consequences be damned. Of course, he could also face a palace coup as a result of this sooner or later.

As Franz-Joseph he could innovate and reconcile German nationalism with the Grossdeutsche solution. He could define all the Habsburg empire territory as the geographic and economic living space for the German people, but only the ethnically German (Gentile) and German-speaking people as being worthy of inclusion as citizens to be represented in the body politic. Other ethnolinguistic groups and Jews have no rights Germans are bound to respect and reside in the empire at the sufferance of the German peoples and their monarchs to the extent they are economically useful. Face a palace coup for any of these unusual ideas and and abandonment of cross-ethnic aristocratic solidarity? Nonsense, he's really good at organizing his security detail and personal protection.

Militarily intervene on Hungary's behalf in 1848-1849. And completely avoid the Crimean War at almost any cost.

Sounds good.

 

[WolfBear]

@WolfBear -

Were your responses what you think those people would realistically do, but what you, as their "lawyer" would recommend they do pursue their stated interests if they were in that situation? Or something in between?

I was actually thinking specifically of what they themselves would do in such a situation even without any advice from me.

I will respond to the long part of your post here a bit later.

 

[ATP]

1. What if Franz-Joseph's mind is Self-Inserted (SI) from the time of his death in 1916 to his body at the beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle his long life and reign differently?

2. What if Kaiser Wilhelm III from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into Frederick Wilhelm IV at the very beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle FWIV's remaining life and reign through 1861?

3. What if Louis Bonaparte is SI's from the time of his death in 1873 to his own body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, getting a "do-over"

4. What if Georges Clemenceau, on dying in 1929, is SI'ed into Louis Bonaparte's body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution, thus putting him in a position to be favorite candidate for President of the French Republic and in a position to either reshape France's policy, and reshape the Bonaparte legacy, or retire the Bonaparte legacy through self-renunciation?

5. What if Kaiser Wilhelm from his death in 1941 is SI'ed into his own younger self upon taking the throne in 1888? What does he do differently, and the same, with his do-over?

6. What if upon his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler is SI'ed into either Franz-Joseph or Frederick Wilhelm IV in late February 1848?

7. What if Nicholas I on his death 1855 if SI'ed back into his own body in late February 1848? Let Austria hang? Help wreck it?

1.Win war with prussia.All he need was modern rifles and fieldguns,and he have both prototypes and money.
2.Nothing,he would just copy what he did.prussian politics in this time was good.
3.Do not sart war with germans.Or,to precise,do not attack them - then bavarians and saxons would not be made to fight him.
Let germans attack him - when he get new modern fieldguns.
4.He was republican,so he would keep republic.And smash prussia in 1866 when they fight Austria. and Bavaria.
5.Just do not fuck Schieffen plane.Let assume,that russians would take East Prussia.So what? there was nothing there worth fighting.
6.Start killing jews and poles , get killed again.
7.Help Hungarians and create vassal state there.

 

[Buba]

Difficult to tear myself away from "what I'd do" to "what would that dolt fuck up again, but differently this time".
Hence only a few answers.

1. What if Franz-Joseph's mind is Self-Inserted (SI) from the time of his death in 1916 to his body at the beginning of the crises of 1848? How does he handle his long life and reign differently?

Sigh - this guy's reign was one self made disaster after another. IMO FJ was DUMB. I hold no hopes for him.

4. What if Georges Clemenceau, on dying in 1929, is SI'ed into Louis Bonaparte's body at the outbreak of the 1848 French Revolution,

A rabidly imperialist France, leading to British smackdown?

6. What if upon his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler is SI'ed into either Franz-Joseph or Frederick Wilhelm IV in late February 1848?

Contrary to what almost all posters on boards like this think, the German (and not only) monarchs had much less power than XXth century dictators. So, the worst thing that happens to Jews is expulsion. With expropriation!
Also - Marx is killed, and Humanity Rejoices.

7. What if Nicholas I on his death 1855 if SI'ed back into his own body in late February 1848? Let Austria hang? Help wreck it?

Another dumdum like FJ ... but (I hope) he lets it hang. Cheaper. Dealing with Hungarian Uprising - possibly with another round of Savoyard Treaty breaking and backstabing - into the early '50s is Best Revenge. This wrecks Austria and makes it irrelevant come '54.
Propping up the Hungarians does not seem to fit his mindset.

FJ and Nicholas I both are poster boys for the Galaxy's Worst Calamity - the Stupid and Industrious.