Mongol Invasion of Hungary 1241

[Aldarion]

Mongol Invasion of Hungary 1241, Part 1 – The Invasion

Mongols had invaded Hungary and Croatia in 1241 – 1242 period. Contemporaries described the invasion in the apocalyptic terms. While in the long run far less damaging than the later Ottoman wars, e…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

Mongols had invaded Hungary and Croatia in 1241 – 1242 period. Contemporaries described the invasion in the apocalyptic terms. While in the long run far less damaging than the later Ottoman wars, effects were much more immediately obvious and pronounced in the short term. Lowland areas, especially in Hungary, were basically depopulated and overall population losses were significant. Hungary was no a stranger to periodic nomadic invasions: Hungarian Alfod was after all an ideal area for nomads to establish a holding close to numerous settled states they could plunder. But these invasions were easily stopped by border defenses or elsehow contained, and never presented a major threat to the kingdom itself. In fact, Under Andrew II Hungary had been expanding its influence in the Cuman steppe, especially after Andrew's son, prince Bela, got appointed to the newly created office of the Duke of Transylvania.

This effort proved especially successful following the Kalka battle (1224) which caused a major disarray in the Cuman world. Bortz/Burch's Cuman tribe adopted Christianity in 1227, and consequently also Pontificial Siege's political protectorate and Hungarian military protectorate. Cumans could not become Hungary's political protectorate due to political conflict between Hungary and the Teutonic Order at the itme. During 1230s, Hungary and Russia clashed over the Kuman issue, but the Mongols were increasingly a presence in the area from 1229 onwards.

Hungarian involvement in the steppe naturally captured Mongol interest. While Mongols were always going to attack Europe and Hungary due to their ideology of world conquest (discussed later in the article / series), it is likely that Hungarian involvement with the Cumans turned Hungary into the primary target during the 1241/2 campaign. The great kuriltai of 1235 which had taken the decision to attack the Cuman steppe had explicitly concluded Hungary as one of potential opponents. Batu had in fact been trying to establish diplomatic relations with Hungary from the very beginnings of the military operations in Volga. Bela IV however was aware that the Mongol threat could not be turned away through diplomacy and refused Mongol terms.

 

[Buba]

Lowland areas, especially in Hungary, were basically depopulated and overall population losses were significant.

Hyperbole? It was a single corps which operated in Hungary for a few months. I can imagine several tens of thousands of civilians killed or enslaved, but that'd be far, far from "depopulated" or "significant" population loss.

 

[ATP]

Hyperbole? It was a single corps which operated in Hungary for a few months. I can imagine several tens of thousands of civilians killed or enslaved, but that'd be far, far from "depopulated" or "significant" population loss.

No,mongols were really good at genocide bussiness.When you ordered them to kill all,they kill all without torturing and raping.
Which mean,that even biggest cities like Bagdad was killed in week or so.
They were perfrctly capable of genociding one town per day.

You thought about modern technology too much - when mongols really could genocide faster then germans with their fancy gas chambers.

@Aldarion , you forget about hungarian state on Volga river - mongols genocided them so thoroughly,that they are practically forgotten.
I discovered them by accident in book about mongol conqest - when they were mentioned on one page.
Namely,that hungarian King envoys tried to found them in 1237,but only found remnants of massacred bulgarians who told them that all hungarians there arleady were murdered.

 

[RenegadeInterrupt]

Mongol Invasion of Hungary 1241, Part 1 – The Invasion

Mongols had invaded Hungary and Croatia in 1241 – 1242 period. Contemporaries described the invasion in the apocalyptic terms. While in the long run far less damaging than the later Ottoman wars, e…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

I'm going to be working on a low fantasy inspired by this era if anyone's interested in collab

 

[Aldarion]

Hyperbole? It was a single corps which operated in Hungary for a few months. I can imagine several tens of thousands of civilians killed or enslaved, but that'd be far, far from "depopulated" or "significant" population loss.

It is not hyperbole - archaeological research fully corroborates the accounts in this case. But keep in mind that not all people will have been killed by the Mongols: some will have died from starvation as Mongols burned crops and prevented planting for the next season. Great Hungarian Plain appears to indeed have been nearly completely depopulated.

@Aldarion , you forget about hungarian state on Volga river - mongols genocided them so thoroughly,that they are practically forgotten.
I discovered them by accident in book about mongol conqest - when they were mentioned on one page.
Namely,that hungarian King envoys tried to found them in 1237,but only found remnants of massacred bulgarians who told them that all hungarians there arleady were murdered.

That would be an interesting read. You know any books on the topic?

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

I was just wondering about this time period too, since after the Battle of Mohi, the Mongols had also invaded Serbia and Bulgaria as well. Could the Mongols have actually taken control of those other two Balkan states much earlier than the 1290s? I'd imagine a much larger Golden Horde that spans from Central Asia to the Drina and the Adriatic in this case. Plus did the Mongols really wanted to annex Hungary into their domain as well?

 

[Zachowon]

The main reason mongols did so good was due to horse archers on plains. Mountains and forests stopped them. And jungles are a whole other level

 

[ATP]

It is not hyperbole - archaeological research fully corroborates the accounts in this case. But keep in mind that not all people will have been killed by the Mongols: some will have died from starvation as Mongols burned crops and prevented planting for the next season. Great Hungarian Plain appears to indeed have been nearly completely depopulated.

All true.

That would be an interesting read. You know any books on the topic?

That is problem - i read it few years ago,and besides, hungarian state on Don was mentioned in few sentences,it was not even one page.
And i arleady tell all info i get there - King Bela discovered that they existed,send monks to meet them,but they come there in 1237 when entire state was wiped out to the last man.
When some bulgars survived long enough to speak with monks.

 

[Buba]

Mountains and forests stopped them

And south China is what? Korea? Russia?

 

[Zachowon]

And south China is what? Korea? Russia?

The jungles of the far southeast Asia arr very dense and negate any sort of horse archery, and it took them a decent amount of time to conqure Korea compared to steppes nations.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

No,mongols were really good at genocide bussiness.When you ordered them to kill all,they kill all without torturing and raping.
Which mean,that even biggest cities like Bagdad was killed in week or so.
They were perfrctly capable of genociding one town per day.

You thought about modern technology too much - when mongols really could genocide faster then germans with their fancy gas chambers.

@Aldarion , you forget about hungarian state on Volga river - mongols genocided them so thoroughly,that they are practically forgotten.
I discovered them by accident in book about mongol conqest - when they were mentioned on one page.
Namely,that hungarian King envoys tried to found them in 1237,but only found remnants of massacred bulgarians who told them that all hungarians there arleady were murdered.

There was a Hungarian state on the Volga? Or you might have confused that with Volga Bulgaria?

 

[Aldarion]

I was just wondering about this time period too, since after the Battle of Mohi, the Mongols had also invaded Serbia and Bulgaria as well. Could the Mongols have actually taken control of those other two Balkan states much earlier than the 1290s? I'd imagine a much larger Golden Horde that spans from Central Asia to the Drina and the Adriatic in this case. Plus did the Mongols really wanted to annex Hungary into their domain as well?

In answer to the last question, yes, they did. At the very least, they wanted Hungary to become a tributary and provide troops for further westwards conquests, as their demands and later operations show.

And south China is what? Korea? Russia?

South China was conquered by... the Northern Chinese infantry. Mongols played a minor part in that, beyond the Mongol monarch sitting on the Heavenly Throne.

Korea resisted for decades despite being on the Mongols' doorstep, and it took a drought and a famine causing internal unrest to bring it down.

Russia did not have a single proper fortification. The best they had in terms of castles were small wooden motte-and-bailey types.

But anyway, I will post an article detailing that the next week.

I'm going to be working on a low fantasy inspired by this era if anyone's interested in collab

Sounds interesting. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to participate, but in case you need help or have a question or anything, PM me.

 

[ATP]

There was a Hungarian state on the Volga? Or you might have confused that with Volga Bulgaria?

Yes.And no,i do not confused them with Bulgars.I only read in book about mongol conqest few sentences about them - hungarian King send monks to them as envoys,but when they come there in 1237 surviving Bulgars said tat they are too late,and that mongols wiped them out completly.

 

[Aldarion]

Mongol Invasion of Hungary 1241, Part 2 – Why Did Mongols Withdraw

Mongols had arrived almost out of nowhere, and laid waste to territory from Poland to the Balkans, defeating several armies in the process. Then they equally suddenly left. Mongol invasion of Hunga…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

Mongols had arrived almost out of nowhere, and laid waste to territory from Poland to the Balkans, defeating several armies in the process. Then they equally suddenly left. Mongol invasion of Hungary, and Europe in general, was a defeat. All the areas which the Mongols had invaded from 1236 to 1242 were absorbed into the Mongol empire, with the exception of those in Europe.

Mongol withdrawal was sudden, and at first most people expected it to have been a ruse. Rogerius describes staying with other refugees on a defensible mountaintop for at least a month after making his escape from the withdrawing Mongol column.

Numerous theories exist as of why Europe alone had escaped subjugation, but most of these are not convincing.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

The real shocker in all of this was that Bulgaria had an actual Genghisid as it's ruler. I would have suspected that if the Mongols had a much firmer control of the lands south of the Danube, Chaka would have been its Khan, and the capital would have either been in Niš or modern day Kragujevac.

Given that the Mongols wanted to take Hungary, what would have happened to Croatia and Bosnia?