More realistic cases of "Piedmont-style" national expansionism?

[WolfBear]

Nicaea served as the nucleus for the recreation of the Byzantine Empire in the late 13th century in real life. Maybe Trebizond or Epirus could fill this role instead with a sufficiently early PoD?

 

[stevep]

That makes sense, actually. That could actually work with the right PoD, I think. I just don't know what the right PoD for this is. This doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist, though.

I did read once that the large Serbian gains in the 1st Balkan wars finished off ideas that they [Montenegro] could supplant their larger neighbour.

Possibly the attempt to replace the dynasty in 1903 in the May Coup might have failed and possibly led to a bloody civil war between the two dynasties. If it lasts long enough and both claimants are killed - apparently king Alexander was the last of the Obrenović family - then a number of Serbs look toward the Montenegran dynasty - it wasn't actually a kingdom until 1910 OTL - as an alternative or possibly simply Serbia is weakened and divided enough that Montenegro steps in? Of course this assumes that for whatever reason no other nation intervenes and there would be some butterflies which could be considerable over time.

I notice that the leader of the coup was a certain led by then-Captain Dragutin Dimitrijević (Apis) . Where have we heard that name before?

 

[WolfBear]

I notice that the leader of the coup was a certain led by then-Captain Dragutin Dimitrijević (Apis) . Where have we heard that name before?

He also played a role in organizing the assassination attempt on FF in Sarajevo in June 1914, though IIRC he chickened out at the last moment and unsuccessfully tried to cancel this plan.

Also, this is somewhat off-topic, but did Montenegro ever lay a claim on the Serb-majority parts of southeastern Bosnia?

Expanding into these territories, if at all possible, would strengthen Montenegro's power. Similar to how Prussia's annexation into Silesia, the Rhineland, Hanover, et cetera strengthened its own power before it actually managed to unify all of Germany under its own aegis.

 

[stevep]

He also played a role in organizing the assassination attempt on FF in Sarajevo in June 1914, though IIRC he chickened out at the last moment and unsuccessfully tried to cancel this plan.

Also, this is somewhat off-topic, but did Montenegro ever lay a claim on the Serb-majority parts of southeastern Bosnia?

Expanding into these territories, if at all possible, would strengthen Montenegro's power. Similar to how Prussia's annexation into Silesia, the Rhineland, Hanover, et cetera strengthened its own power before it actually managed to unify all of Germany under its own aegis.

I actually meant that as a joke.

Do recall reading that until the substantial Serbian expansion after the 1st Balkan war Montenegro was still seeing itself as an alternative leader of southern Slavic nationalism although not sure how accurate that was.

I think it would need Montenegro having success earlier, probably in the mid-lat 19thC to enable them to preempt Serbia as the primary power in the region which might have an impact on how things develop in the region.

 

[WolfBear]

I actually meant that as a joke.

Do recall reading that until the substantial Serbian expansion after the 1st Balkan war Montenegro was still seeing itself as an alternative leader of southern Slavic nationalism although not sure how accurate that was.

I think it would need Montenegro having success earlier, probably in the mid-lat 19thC to enable them to preempt Serbia as the primary power in the region which might have an impact on how things develop in the region.

Or you could have the CPs win WWI and support a mini-Yugoslavia under Montenegrin leadership to punish Serbia for having its intelligence service kill FF, right?

 

[Ricardolindo]

He also played a role in organizing the assassination attempt on FF in Sarajevo in June 1914, though IIRC he chickened out at the last moment and unsuccessfully tried to cancel this plan.

Also, this is somewhat off-topic, but did Montenegro ever lay a claim on the Serb-majority parts of southeastern Bosnia?

Expanding into these territories, if at all possible, would strengthen Montenegro's power. Similar to how Prussia's annexation into Silesia, the Rhineland, Hanover, et cetera strengthened its own power before it actually managed to unify all of Germany under its own aegis.

It's East Herzegovina, not Southeastern Bosnia. Anyways, Montenegro did want to annex Herzegovina, read The Great Cauldron. Montenegro actually owns Old Herzegovina which they gained in the 1877-78 War, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina.

 

[WolfBear]

It's East Herzegovina, not Southeastern Bosnia. Anyways, Montenegro did want to annex Herzegovina, read The Great Cauldron. Montenegro actually owns Old Herzegovina which they gained in the 1877-78 War, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina.

Interesting. Thank you.

Also, this is off-topic, but do you think that there was ever any realistic chance of Vojvodina/the Banat ever being made its own independent state instead of it being split between Yugoslavia and Romania? It was rather ethnically diverse, to my knowledge.

The Banat is the southern region here in the center of the south:

 

[WolfBear]

Interesting. Thank you.

Also, this is off-topic, but do you think that there was ever any realistic chance of Vojvodina/the Banat ever being made its own independent state instead of it being split between Yugoslavia and Romania? It was rather ethnically diverse, to my knowledge.

The Banat is the southern region here in the center of the south:

The Banat question is discussed in this 1919 book, FWIW:

Europe in the melting pot : Seton-Watson, R. W. (Robert William), 1879-1951 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Bibliographical footnotes

archive.org