King Arts
Well-known member
Yes everything is equally bad the flu is just as bad as cancer and aids mixed together.
No Enemies To The Right?
- Thread starter Curved_Sw0rd
- Start date
Seriously? If you need to bring up stuff mostly from a century ago or more to show how bad the 'religious right" is, then perhaps your concerns are a bit more... obsolete compared to the threat of very current progressive insanity.
It's only 'obselete' because large secitons of society got tired of the evangelical authoritarians screwing with everyone's day, and pushed religious power out of the public/political sphere as much as possible.
Just because commies are the current threat, does not mean that theocratic authoritarians aren't hoping to take power riding on a wave of backlash, a backlash many fringe right folks here have celebrated as being nearly inevitable.
Or have you missed the repeated 'predictions' by people like @Cherico and others about how the 'Right Wing backlash in decades will be harsh and unforgiving towards degeneracy/social experimentation.'
I hope i don't need to explain to you that a century ago there were far more people willing to listen to what you call "evangelical authoritarians"...
Unless they are coming back from the grave, i don't think they will be pushing anything again successfully anytime soon.
But there are far less of them... They no longer can do that. It's the commies who are indoctrinating loads of people, especially those in positions of authority.
Until you can point me to evangelical equivalent of madrassas popping up in the US and largerly replacing schools run by commie leaning teachers unions, i cannot take you seriously on this.
Since when is the right synonymous with religious authoritarians?
How many seriously religious people do you think are there, say, shitposting on the chans?
The Right is the only side religious authoritarians will go to, via simple process of elimination; they won't going the progressives or the libertarians, for obvious reasons, that's for sure.
And you do not see the Left or Libertarians making a big fuss over there not being Christian prayers in public schools, while there are definitely sections of the Right who feel the need to try to shove religion back into places it was rightfully removed from.
Curved_Sw0rd
Just Like That Bluebird
And how do you justify this fear? Is it just your grandmother's actions that justify giving religious people/religious laws the stink eye or is there more to it? Is there more than decades old anecdotes?
I ask because it's not the Religious Right that's going to dox you. It's not the Religious Right that'll get you fired from your job. It's not them handing out bootleg estrogen to minors. I think you and I both know who is.
Show me the evidence. Show me the reasons you're so afraid that each time I suggest "Hey maybe we should focus on the Left instead of getting into knifefights for reason the Left wants." you stomp your feet and say no. I need something of substance here. And if you have to hop in a time machine and pull out old Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris talking points from the Obama era I think you need to consider if they were ever right at all with how their followers turned out, with how Harris turned out.
See, you keep trying to limit and decide what counts as evidence of the need to both punch right, and evidence the religious right is something moderates and centrists have legitimate concerns/fears about.
I've presented evidence, and you have chosen to dismiss it.
As @Terthna said, this is a case of the Allies and Soviets teaming up to beat the Nazi's; we know that our Soviet/evangelical 'allies' are allies of convience only, and not to be trusted when they try to get power for themselves, instead of taking power from commies.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Religious Right is, even at its worst, far more tolerable than the Left.
Sure, it can get quite authoritharian (just look at Muslim countries). But even then, it is based in tradition - a.k.a. stuff that works - and its expectations are usually clear cut. This means that, even at its worst, it is not as dangerous as the Left is - because unlike the Left, religious Right isn't out to destroy society itself.
Authoritharian Left will change expectations every season, and every time it does it will be time for another genocide of undesireables. And all in the name of establishing an utopian system which will never work because it cannot work. End result? Even when Right engages in genocide, it usually has a clear end point, and something will be left for society to rise from the ashes. Leftist genocide however has no inherent end goal, it will just keep killing so long as somebody doesn't stop it by force, and if not stopped, it will destroy the society itself.
And at this point, religious Right is basically inconsequential. It is just a bogeyman that Left uses to divert attention from its own pseudo-religious crap. Never forget that Marxism/Communism/Progressivism is a secular religion, with all that entails.
Of course not, they don't want to put them there even if they could. The left prefers putting rainbow and BLM flags in the public schools.
Bigking321
Well-known member
I'll take a Christian theocracy over our current leftist insanity 100% of the time.
They would at least follow the rule of law and be very against corruption. Unless they weren't actually following Christ, in which case we would still be better off than we are now.
They would at least follow the rule of law and be very against corruption. Unless they weren't actually following Christ, in which case we would still be better off than we are now.
Ah, was wondering when the monarhcist would show up.
Just because commies are bad, does not make religious zealots an ok option.
And there are more options than that in the US, because the Libertarian party does exist, and if the GOP goes full evangelical authortiarian, then the Libertarians become the last refuge of sane people.
I see you aren't denying that parts of the Right want to force religion back into secular places, and just trying to deflect from that.
Because the fact parts of the Right do want to force religion back into secular areas of society is exactly why people do still fear the evangelical right becoming just as bad as the current Leftists, if that section of the right gain the power's they want.
We will not trade one brand of authoritarian assholes for another.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
I think the most I have seen along those lines is people going please don't take the ten commandments down from our local court house and maybe it would be fine to allow teachers to pray if they don't ask the students to pray along with them. not particularly authoritarian to me.
edit: wait I also remember that a county got upset when in response to them not wanting to take it down some rich assholes from the church of satan commissioned a big expensive statue of a demon to be put along side it. can't remember if it got removed or not.
I would prefer having neither, again Liberty and Freedom of the individual is all I care about and dictatorships as well as authoritarian banana republics don't have any.
Curved_Sw0rd
Just Like That Bluebird
You've provided the Salem Witch Trials which is basically puritans being puritans and so old and so divorced from modern religion that it's basically a Leftist talking point to show you're not one of us knuckle dragging believers. You cite prayer in school and I really don't know why you wouldn't prefer that over BLM/LGBTQAARP propaganda. At least the Bible has wisdom in it, what does Ibram Kendi have, hmm?
Both examples are hogwash. So yes, I need something more than recycled New Atheist talking points. Have you not noticed just how utterly terrible and bottomless the Left's "morality" is? How it's schizophrenic and and lashes out at everything? I would take Christendom over that any day of the week.
Better yet, let's turn this back to the original point of the thread. Have you ever "de-radicalized" someone, Bacle? Have you ever won someone over and brought them into the fold by saying "Wow, that Fuentes, he's such a dickhead."?
Bigking321
Well-known member
Religion is kinda a personal individual thing I think and freedom of religion to me means letting people be religious regardless of where they are.
I wouldn't see it as forcing religion into anywhere.
I'd see it more as allowing it to exist where it was forced out and banned by authoritarians.
I wouldn't see it as forcing religion into anywhere.
I'd see it more as allowing it to exist where it was forced out and banned by authoritarians.
Curved_Sw0rd
Just Like That Bluebird
There's always been a bad faith side to "Freedom of Religion" where you have groups like the SPLC going to bat for Klan member's freedom of speech but having an utter fit at the idea of religion in public spaces.
I've seen a lot of posts on Facebook and other places by people on the Evangelical Right who think they could fix everything with the US school system if they were allowed to lead/force kids to pray in school like the 'old days'.
These are usually Boomer-Silent gen folks who think literally everything wrong with the US today can be traced back to people not being religious/Christian enough.
And they rarely ever consider other religions right to pray either, or consider other religions as part of American society.
I've been around the sorts who would be classified as the evangelical right, and most of the time they are pleasant enough. However when they let the mask slip about what they want to do with religion and modern society, it proves that the authoritarian tendencies of that segment of the population never went away, they just know they don't have the power to enforce their wishes.
Salem Witch Trial still resonate with the modern US culture, whether you like it or not, and you keep trying to pretend only 'recent' things count as evidence. i'm not going to play that game.
I presented evidence, you dismiss it because you don't think it is relevant/is 'too old', despite the fact the stuff still exists in US pop culture as warning against religious groups taking power for a good fucking reason.
As for Leftist propaganda vs forcing religion back into schools, it's that I don't want either and will fight against both with equal vigor.
Also, never read Kendi, who is a socialist moron who tries to hide behind his Muslim faith.
You do not get to define what evidence counts and what does not, just because the examples are ones used for decades as warning against religious zealotry in politics and culture.
Just because the Left has issues with commies, does not suddenly mean the Salem Witch Trials and Scopes Monkey trial do not matter to public perception of of the religious authoritarians on the Right.
You don't want them to matter, that is clear, but they do, and they always will with regards to religion in the US.
So tough shit.
Oh, I have tried, and gotten nothing but grief for it, because I'm a rare moderate/independent in a Hard-D area, and with mostly Hard-D family, so there have been very few who it even seemed worth the drama to try to convert/inform.
Even the GOP friendly folks in my area are more Boomer-cons who just want the pre-Trump GOP back.
However, I can definitely say not being willing to call out people like Fuentes and co. does make it harder to convince people on the fence that the Right doesn't tacitly condone what they say.
And it is the people on the fence, the swing voters, who matter most in elections.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
I Think the only other time that I heard prayer being an issue in school other than it being used to smack down unobtrusive people silently praying in the teachers lounge while their lefty coworkers looked on in mild discomfort was when the local school was forced to make a prayer room for some Somali Muslim family to have their kids go to to pray in the middle of class every day. it was deemed discriminatory to not have it and of course the tax payers had to pay.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Oh, absolutely.
I still think freedom of religion is rather essential and the cultures current push to drive it out is a huge part of the reason for our current cultural decay.
It's a classic Marxist takeover plan. Destroy the traditions and culture and fill in the created holes with progressive garbage.
Curved_Sw0rd
Just Like That Bluebird
Can you really blame them when modern society is in the state it's in? A glorious retvrn to the 90's isn't really going to cut it these days, no, there's no actual inoculation against the Equity Cult.
Because Salem is only one example, and one that's been used by the Left so often as a cudgel to bash Christendom that it's played out, rote, boring. I need something modern because you're acting like theocracy is one uncensored opinion away here, that's far more current.
Okay, how do you know?