On the existence of race

DirtbagLeft

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@FriedCFour
... I think racial differences are extremely clearly existent so the idea that it doesn’t exist is silly, but ultimately everyone possesses the same rights by virtue of being a human, and I’m married to a non-white immigrant so I don’t really hate either of those two things.
...To me it’s obvious. Africans will always have more peak representation in many sports because they are better physically on average as one example, and so their peaks tend to be higher than others. Same with Samoans. Hell even down to weird random shit like ear wax it’s significantly different as I discovered with my wife. We can obviously acknowledge that a chihuahua is different from a pit bull. I don’t understand why it’s so taboo to the say the same of people.
Race both does and does not exist. Race does not exist in any real or meaningful sense. What does exist is haplogroups which are kinda sorta but not really at all the same thing as race. The definition of race relies heavily on description of physical characteristics which may or may not come from the same genetic code. As an example (and I am going to need to dig up the name in the near future) there were white Japanese when the Europeans discovered Japan. Until very recently it was thought that a lost European culture traveled to Japan in the distant past. What we learned recently through genetic testing was that they bore no relation to Europeans at all. Rather the superficial features developed independently in an entirely different haplogroup.

The claim that Africans will always have more peak representation in many sports is patently false. As much as I am opposed to such a program we could begin a breading program that could match or surpass African athletes. And not just African Athletes of today. If Haplogroup R1B began a eugenics program and haplogroup L0-6 and M1 did not R1B would surpass L's and M1. If both began a eugenics program then they would reach parity based on the limitation of physics. As to genetic heritability and intelligence this does not mean what people seem to either fear it means or hope it means. High heritability implies no link between genetics and the trait. Just like there is no "piano gene" there is no "smart gene". Rather intelligence is genetic structurally. What this means in simple terms is that the genes determine the structure of the brain but have no direct link between intelligence and particular genes or sets of genes. Genes alone however do not determine intelligence but rather it is genes with a combination of nutrition and other external factors.

Critical Thinking and intelligence

Interestingly however there is a difference between critical thinking and intelligence and a lack of development of critical thinking skills has a larger negative impact than lower IQ. While measuring the ability to engage in abstract thinking is useful, abstract thinking is less useful than the ability to reason well. While it is fallaciously believed that IQ measures the latter it actually only measures the former. CTT or CRT (Critical Reasoning Test) seems to be a higher indicator of success and the ability to make good choices.

Haplogroups and Traits

No one denies the existence of genetic variation within haplogroups, or that these genetic variations are causal to physical differences or minor variations. While we have found causality between genes and Hair, eye color etc, there at this time appears to be no causal link to between genetics and IQ although there does seem to be some correlative link mostly linked to the structure and operation of the brain which is in part genetically determined. There also seems to be an over emphasis on physical brain size with a disregard to the proportional size of the brain which appears to have a more substantial relation to both IQ and Critical Reasoning both within and without humans.

Haplogroups are distinct allele frequencies that appear within given populations and allow for the tracking of ancestry. Because of parallel evolution the colloquial term "race" is both inadequate and useless when speaking of biology.
 

FriedCFour

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Race both does and does not exist. Race does not exist in any real or meaningful sense.
Sure it does, in the same way a Doberman and a Shepherd are two different dogs. Doesn’t mean that one is worse than another, or that it’s wrong to have a mixed breed but it’s still clearly real whether you coach it and call it haplogroups or whatever.

As an example (and I am going to need to dig up the name in the near future) there were white Japanese when the Europeans discovered Japan. Until very recently it was thought that a lost European culture traveled to Japan in the distant past. What we learned recently through genetic testing was that they bore no relation to Europeans at all. Rather the superficial features developed independently in an entirely different haplogroup.
You’re talking about the Ainu I think, they still exist, they don’t really look all that white either.

Doctors test certain ethnic groups for diseases. Children can tell children of different races apart and they interact differently with them from the time they are born. There has always been a concept of different peoples and others, different races. It goes back at least several hundred BC.

And yeah, you could start a eugenics breeding program and you’d get different results. But barring we go full eugenics that is how it will remain because different ethnic groups have differences between them that are inherent to them. It can certainly change over time but it’s clearly there. You can see it with your own eyes.

I’m honestly just not as invested in words and specifics as you are. It doesn’t matter to me all that much. Whether you call it haplogroups or race it’s the same to me.
 
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Cherico

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There are more differences between two people of the same race then two races in general.

And I'm also incredibly leary of basing anything on race because in a multiracial society thats a recipie for civil war. I think the better option is to focus on a unifying culture and have equality before the law to prevent shit from going wrong. I think this is reasonable because If I lets say go to Ireland I'm going to have a whole lot more in common with a black man from Atlanta then most of the locals in Dublin.
 

FriedCFour

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And I'm also incredibly leary of basing anything on race because in a multiracial society thats a recipie for civil war. I think the better option is to focus on a unifying culture and have equality before the law to prevent shit from going wrong. I think this is reasonable because If I lets say go to Ireland I'm going to have a whole lot more in common with a black man from Atlanta then most of the locals in Dublin.
I would agree entirely with that. All I’m saying is that two people of different ethnic groups look more different than two from the same. With how people react being you know, still the same hunter gatherer animal brain we have when you over emphasize that with celebrating diversity and the like all it does is further racial divides. It’s why shit like civics and shared things like religion are important because it brings different groups together which is necessary. When you go the other way it makes racial enclaves and that’s not the best.
 
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