Fallout Perpetual Debate of Bethesda Versus Interplay/Obsidian Fallout World Design

[Typhonis]

Weren't the nukes shown in the TV series way smaller than the 250 to 750 KT devices the Chinese unleashed? Based on the size of the mushroom clouds from Nukemap.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Weren't the nukes shown in the TV series way smaller than the 250 to 750 KT devices the Chinese unleashed? Based on the size of the mushroom clouds from Nukemap.

According to FO1 manual, the Chinese were using 100kt airburst nukes, maybe a few larger ones sprinkled in.

Some of the clouds look pretty large, although scaling them is a bit challenging.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Interplay can do no wrong Doo, didn't ya know

It's funny because some people don't even know the lore of Fallout 1.

It's like they ignore the Glow which was doing 15-30 rads a second.
Even Obsidian lore that people jerk off too ignore them mentioning the Fallout radiation is longer than irl

January 1st
Happy New Year.

Two months in cave. Still lethal outside. Don't get it. In army they said 2-4 weeks cleared fallout

This was Obsidian lore from Honest Hearts DLC.
Yet no one's bitching for thirty pages about not following the lore.
Most of the people complaining literally don't know the lore of the Fallout setting or willingly choose to ignore lore to fit their narrative.


Which is funny because FO1 lore mentions the Fallout is longer than their studies previously suggested

Very conveniently ignoring

"Much faster and more intense deposition of Fallout than had been assumed in studied made during the sixties and seventies"

To put this into perspective for the very dishonest "real fans" who complain about realism. Using only scaling from the FO1 Glow and comparing to the Little Boy IRL

These calculations showed that the highest dosage which would have been received from persistent radioactivity at Hiroshima was between 6 and 25 roentgens of gamma radiation; the highest in the Nagasaki Area was between 30 and 110 roentgens of gamma radiation. The latter figure does not refer to the city itself, but to a localized area in the Nishiyama District. In interpreting these findings it must be understood that to get these dosages, one would have had to remain at the point of highest radioactivity for 6 weeks continuously, from the first hour after the bombing.

Radiation Injuries | The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki | Historical Documents | atomicarchive.com
So six weeks to get 110 roentgens of gamma radiation.

One roentgen = One rad

That's 0.0000303 rads per second.
Meaning the Glow is 199999.47% percent more radioactive.

The Nagasaki and Hiroshima radioactive fallout took 6 months to go back to normal levels, in the Glow the bombs dropped in 2077 yet remained at the radioactive intensity despite 83 years passing by.

So by Fallout 1 lore only

The Fallout radiation lasts baseline minimum 16,600% longer than a regular nuke and is also 199,999.47% percent more radioactive.

Yeah people bitching about Bethesda lore don't even know the OG lore color me surprised

 

[Zachowon]

The time limit is one of the better features of the game lmao, in any case the second half of the time limit was patched to 13 years, which is more than sufficient. Imagine saying the first game is bad in terms of gameplay kek.

It honestly is though. It's boring amd is still a time limit.
Time limits ruin RPGs.

Army recruits guys with bad reading comprehension huh? Read please.
"But it also stresses how radiation is not very long-lasting, and how its pretty much safe after 100 years...Which is what we see in Fallout 1 lmao."

On the west coast all you need to air burst because there is nothing there.
East coast got ground bursts.

Given how the radiation is still so hot it's glowing, some sort of technobabble cobalt 60 Dr Strangelove bullshit nuke.

So how come you can use this excuse for the Glow but not thr Glowing Sea?

1: It missed the target, whereas the Glow was actually hit, already it's contrived
2: The nuke storage is WW2 esque nukes because Bethesda thinks 2077 nations would still be dropping fucking Fat Man and Little Boy style nukes on people, like usual they don't understand Fallout
3: Instead of the place being a localized hotspot like, say, The Glow, it somehow irradiates the entire area of Boston without killing anyone

Storms carry the radiation over too the towns.

*Yawn* Shills are embarrassing.

Me a shill? Your the one shilling for a game company who was going to undo a lot of the "greatest fallout" because of how they backed themselves into a corner.
Interplay is as bad as Valve with making games.

 

[Scooby Doo]

It honestly is though. It's boring amd is still a time limit.
Time limits ruin RPGs.

On the west coast all you need to air burst because there is nothing there.
East coast got ground bursts.

So how come you can use this excuse for the Glow but not thr Glowing Sea?

Storms carry the radiation over too the towns.

Me a shill? Your the one shilling for a game company who was going to undo a lot of the "greatest fallout" because of how they backed themselves into a corner.
Interplay is as bad as Valve with making games.

Zeno acting like Bethesda didn't include ICBM's in Fallout 4 or Fallout 76

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It honestly is though. It's boring amd is still a time limit.
Time limits ruin RPGs.

Time limits grant urgency, otherwise you end up with skyrim where 'THE WORLD IS ENDING!...But it kinda isn't!'

Also calling Fallout 1 boring is hilarious, have you actually played and beaten it?

 

[S'task]

Time limits grant urgency, otherwise you end up with skyrim where 'THE WORLD IS ENDING!...But it kinda isn't!'

Also calling Fallout 1 boring is hilarious, have you actually played and beaten it?

I have. Fallout 1 is by far the weakest game structurally and the time limit unnecessarily punishes exploring or making honest mistakes. There's a reason Fallout 2 didn't put any timers on the main quest and that most modern game design shy away from it, mostly because timers don't actually serve to heighten tension but either end up punishing people for not playing the game in a specific way (which is what FO1 effectively did) or end up being so long as to be meaningless.

In other words, they're very hard to balance to get the effect you want while not ending up punishing players. Heck, in FO1 the initial timer was so tight that a misclick on the navigation map could mean you have to restart your game due to lost time.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yeah replaying Fallout 1 now I can say it is kinda boring. The nostalgia from when I played it when I was younger has diminished a fair bit, even more so. It's like an inverse of my experience when I played Planescape Torment or Neverwinter Nights again.

 

[Zachowon]

Time limits grant urgency, otherwise you end up with skyrim where 'THE WORLD IS ENDING!...But it kinda isn't!'

Time limits are stupid in RPG games. I can't explore and do all the stuff I want if I have a time limit.
Say I wanna jist fully explore the map and do all the side quests. Nope I am forced to beat the main quest and anything else will prevent that.

Also calling Fallout 1 boring is hilarious, have you actually played and beaten it?

FO 1 is boring.
I get bored trying to get anywhere in the game after building my character.

I also build my character in ways that I guess go against meta because yeah. It isn't fun.
2 is more fun, but 1 is worse then 3 or 4 hameplay wise.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I have. Fallout 1 is by far the weakest game structurally and the time limit unnecessarily punishes exploring or making honest mistakes. There's a reason Fallout 2 didn't put any timers on the main quest and that most modern game design shy away from it, mostly because timers don't actually serve to heighten tension but either end up punishing people for not playing the game in a specific way (which is what FO1 effectively did) or end up being so long as to be meaningless.

In other words, they're very hard to balance to get the effect you want while not ending up punishing players. Heck, in FO1 the initial timer was so tight that a misclick on the navigation map could mean you have to restart your game due to lost time.

Except that's complete nonsense, a misclick on the map won't make you restart lmao. You get 150 days and you can do it in like 75 pretty easily, and even going out of your way to do every quest before Necropolis will make you go under 150 days with ease.

If the time limit was 100 days, sure that'd be ROUGH, but 150 is ample.

Time limits are stupid in RPG games. I can't explore and do all the stuff I want if I have a time limit.
Say I wanna jist fully explore the map and do all the side quests. Nope I am forced to beat the main quest and anything else will prevent that.

You're supposed to do multiple playthroughs lmao, you going to bitch how a single character in pen and paper DnD is limited in what they can do and experience?

FO 1 is boring.
I get bored trying to get anywhere in the game after building my character.

I also build my character in ways that I guess go against meta because yeah. It isn't fun.
2 is more fun, but 1 is worse then 3 or 4 hameplay wise.

If you get bored in FO1 you might have ADHD and you should get it checked out, attention spans shouldn't be lower than five minutes. I am sorry for your condition.

 

[Zachowon]

Except that's complete nonsense, a misclick on the map won't make you restart lmao. You get 150 days and you can do it in like 75 pretty easily, and even going out of your way to do every quest before Necropolis will make you go under 150 days with ease.

If the time limit was 100 days, sure that'd be ROUGH, but 150 is ample.

You're supposed to do multiple playthroughs lmao, you going to bitch how a single character in pen and paper DnD is limited in what they can do and experience?

There is a diffrence between pen and paper rpgs and video game ones.
You present me a world, I should be able to.explore without care of time.
But in DnD terms I have spent a while session in the starting town doing just random shit before, and exploring.

If you get bored in FO1 you might have ADHD and you should get it checked out, attention spans shouldn't be lower than five minutes. I am sorry for your condition.

I can play plenty of games for hours straight.
It's just FO 1 is just. Boring. It is slow paced, like ugh slow.
FO 2 wasn't that bad pacing wise to me

Just 1.

I also prefer less turn based fighting and more real time fighting as it is to ke a better way to look at strategy

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

There is a diffrence between pen and paper rpgs and video game ones.
You present me a world, I should be able to.explore without care of time.
But in DnD terms I have spent a while session in the starting town doing just random shit before, and exploring.

I can play plenty of games for hours straight.
It's just FO 1 is just. Boring. It is slow paced, like ugh slow.
FO 2 wasn't that bad pacing wise to me

Just 1.

I also prefer less turn based fighting and more real time fighting as it is to ke a better way to look at strategy

FO1 quests are generally faster paced than FO2, so no clue what you're on about. A lot of FO2 quests have insane backtracking and puzzle solving while FO1 quests generally are like "Go to place and shoot some people".

 

[DarthOne]

For me the biggest problem with classic fallout games is just getting used to the interface. That and I think we’ve all been spoiled by / gotten too used to first-person RPGs.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

For me the biggest problem with classic fallout games is just getting used to the interface. That and I think we’ve all been spoiled by / gotten too used to first-person RPGs.

First person RPG's are somewhat limited in actual scale (no, infinite fetch quests does not make a good RPG!) because moving to 3d worlds basically makes exponential cost increases.

The classic Fallout games are actually shockingly simple in terms of interface, I mean dear god compare it to some other older RPG titles and you'll rip your hair out. SPECIAL is basically a shockingly effective 'simplified' RPG system, having a full-on GURPS video game would be even more nightmarish.

I will say that the Classic Fallouts have issues with quest design, some can be very intuitive and understandable, others are so retardedly cryptic that you basically have to resort to the internet to figure it out.

Getting into Mariposa in FO2 requires a point and click-esque puzzle to solve.

 

[Scooby Doo]

FO1 and FO2 have bigger maps but most of the locations had significantly less detail and features then the later games. It's easy to make big maps when you have shit details and bland environments

Omg wow so amazing, infinitely better than Bethesda's FO3

Even the Oil Rig was mediocre design compared to the crawler

Yeah sure you got bigger maps, 90% of those maps are copy pasted clones that have a few rooms edited to be different. The Bethesda games have more detail in a cell than there is in an entire map on either FO1 or FO2.


But sure let's act like the Interplay Fallout's are much better even though the series is only alive because of Bethesda.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Honestly objective analysis after doing some research, Bethesda factually is keeping the Fallout IP alive much better than Interplay ever did

Bethesda still has quite a few things they did wrong in the IP (Canvas Bag scandal, occasional Retcons, poor launch of 76) but technically have four games under their IP and Fallout 3 still sold more than FO1/2 combined while introducing a lot of new people to the IP.

If Fallout 3 wasn't made then Fallout franchise as a whole would be a dead IP only generation X would recognize

 

[S'task]

Honestly objective analysis after doing some research, Bethesda factually is keeping the Fallout IP alive much better than Interplay ever did

Bethesda still has quite a few things they did wrong in the IP (Canvas Bag scandal, occasional Retcons, poor launch of 76) but technically have four games under their IP and Fallout 3 still sold more than FO1/2 combined while introducing a lot of new people to the IP.

If Fallout 3 wasn't made then Fallout franchise as a whole would be a dead IP only generation X would recognize

And elder Millennials thank you very much. I played all but Brotherhood of Steel when the Fallout games were still fairly fresh, and the only reason I didn't play Brotherhood of Steel was due to it be a CONSOLE game when I was a PC gamer.

I remember the days when the fandom was mainly kept alive by No Mutants Allowed, but there's ALSO a reason I use NMA as an insult because I ALSO remember the scandals around how NMA was so hostile to FO3 they actively hosted malware mods designed to break the game just because of how much they disliked the changes Bethesda made to the franchise.

That elitists attitude towards FO I find I've grown less and less tolerant of over the years, even though I initially did side more with the people who preferred the isometric, turned based RPG gameplay over Bethesda's FPS style game. Heck, I STILL prefer Isometric turned based RPGs and Third-Person Action over First Person perspectives, and think that BG3, the Owlcat Pathfinder and Rogue Trader games, and Divinity Original Sin games are superior RPGs to all the Bethesda RPGs put out in the last twenty years, and would love for a company to put out a proper Isometric Fallout RPG that went back to the more tabletop style SPECIAL system, but I'm also not going to sit here and pretend Bethesda's Fallout games are somehow BAD just because they don't adhere to my personal preferences.