Russia in a late German WWI victory scenario

[sillygoose]

Repress Hungary or Romania?

Romania.

 

[WolfBear]

Romania.

Wasn't Romania given something like a 100-year indemnity in the 1918 Treaty of Bucharest (later annulled when the Allies won WWI)?

Also, do you see a Russia that gets Brest-Litovsk borders permanently expanding anywhere? Into Mongolia, for instance? Or Xinjiang? Or Inner Manchuria? Or Afghanistan? Or Persia?

 

[sillygoose]

Wasn't Romania given something like a 100-year indemnity in the 1918 Treaty of Bucharest (later annulled when the Allies won WWI)?

IIRC yes.

Also, do you see a Russia that gets Brest-Litovsk borders permanently expanding anywhere? Into Mongolia, for instance? Or Xinjiang? Or Inner Manchuria? Or Afghanistan? Or Persia?

Maybe, but none of those really add much to the Russian economy.

 

[WolfBear]

Maybe, but none of those really add much to the Russian economy.

They are still useful for the additional living space that they provide for the land-hungry and rapidly growing Russian population. And Russia could help develop those regions once Russia itself will recover!

Also, wouldn't Germany and/or Japan oppose some of these Russian expansions? Germany re: Iran and maybe Afghanistan for instance, and Japan re: Inner Manchuria. And Britain would also oppose Russia re: Afghanistan. Though I'm unsure if anyone actually cared that much about Mongolia or Xinjiang back then.

 

[sillygoose]

They are still useful for the additional living space that they provide for the land-hungry and rapidly growing Russian population. And Russia could help develop those regions once Russia itself will recover!

They didn't need more space, they had plenty of that, they needed food and to develop what they had.

Also, wouldn't Germany and/or Japan oppose some of these Russian expansions? Germany re: Iran and maybe Afghanistan for instance, and Japan re: Inner Manchuria. And Britain would also oppose Russia re: Afghanistan. Though I'm unsure if anyone actually cared that much about Mongolia or Xinjiang back then.

Depends if it steps on their toes or not. I'm not sure they'd really care beyond arming anti-Russia rebels.

 

[WolfBear]

They didn't need more space, they had plenty of that, they needed food and to develop what they had.


Depends if it steps on their toes or not. I'm not sure they'd really care beyond arming anti-Russia rebels.

How is Russia self-sufficient in food production right now, without Ukraine?

Couldn't Iran and Afghanistan have been necessary for Germany for a Germany-to-China railroad?

 

[sillygoose]

How is Russia self-sufficient in food production right now, without Ukraine?

Couldn't Iran and Afghanistan have been necessary for Germany for a Germany-to-China railroad?

Modern technology and development of industries that didn't exist during WW2 or earlier. Russia only recently became food self sufficient in response to sanctions. During the Cold War the Soviets were importing food from the US.

I'm not sure Germany wanted a RR to China. Iran and Afghanistan are not good countries to run rail lines through. Flights and shipping were the way to go.

 

[WolfBear]

Modern technology and development of industries that didn't exist during WW2 or earlier. Russia only recently became food self sufficient in response to sanctions. During the Cold War the Soviets were importing food from the US.

I'm not sure Germany wanted a RR to China. Iran and Afghanistan are not good countries to run rail lines through. Flights and shipping were the way to go.

What made Iran and Afghanistan worse for railroads relative to the Ottoman Empire? Less stable countries?

And Communism in general has been a disaster for food production, et cetera. Just take a look at Mao Zedong's Great Leap Backward in China!

 

[sillygoose]

What made Iran and Afghanistan worse for railroads relative to the Ottoman Empire? Less stable countries?

And Communism in general has been a disaster for food production, et cetera. Just take a look at Mao Zedong's Great Leap Backward in China!

That and mountains.

Yeah the Soviets really fucked up Russia, despite the NEP working; the geniuses in charge decided to go full communism instead. Never go full communism.
China only really recovered after Mao died and they abandoned doctrinaire communism.

 

[WolfBear]

That and mountains.

Yeah the Soviets really fucked up Russia, despite the NEP working; the geniuses in charge decided to go full communism instead. Never go full communism.
China only really recovered after Mao died and they abandoned doctrinaire communism.

I always thought that it was best for Russia if someone put a bullet into Lenin's head sometime before he returned to Russia in 1917. What do you think?

 

[sillygoose]

I always thought that it was best for Russia if someone put a bullet into Lenin's head sometime before he returned to Russia in 1917. What do you think?

Maybe. I'm not that well versed in internal Bolshevik politics during the revolutionary period, so you could have it go to someone just as bad if not worse. Apparently ending the NEP was popular within the party.

 

[WolfBear]

Maybe. I'm not that well versed in internal Bolshevik politics during the revolutionary period, so you could have it go to someone just as bad if not worse. Apparently ending the NEP was popular within the party.

Yeah, because the NEP was only supposed to be a temporary measure, unfortunately.