Vyor
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Guess what? Thats how it works in war. First you get the easy terms and as time goes on those terms get worse and worse. Ukraine rejected the early terms. Now they get worse and worse.
That is just not true?
Guess what? Thats how it works in war. First you get the easy terms and as time goes on those terms get worse and worse. Ukraine rejected the early terms. Now they get worse and worse.
That isn't how it works at all.Guess what? Thats how it works in war. First you get the easy terms and as time goes on those terms get worse and worse. Ukraine rejected the early terms. Now they get worse and worse.
Now lets compare this to the terms for russia, which calls for the complete withdrawal of all russian forces from territory claimed by ukraine, the russian leadership being put on trial and the transfer of control of russia's energy sector to western interests.
Unless you win.Moscov could dictate their terms - IF they take Kiev and destroyed ukrainian army.That isn't how it works at all.
You don't make negotiations worse as the war goes.
You do if you become only more confident in victory, which Russia hasThat isn't how it works at all.
You don't make negotiations worse as the war goes.
That isn't how it works at all.
You don't make negotiations worse as the war goes.
Did you even read this? The terms are unconditional surrender now, combined with annexation, and to add insult to injury, demanding third parties to rubberstamp this too.You think the terms are going to be the same after such brutal fighting? Nope. Even now, if Kiev came to the table the terms will be much worse than the initial treaty. And when Russia wins, the terms will be unconditional surrender.
This is from Medvedev's mouth, these are Russia's demands, and it is not some 'tiny slice', and is completely detached from reality. This is why negotiating with Putin's Russia is farce in this conflict.
@Rocinante, @Terthna, @mrttao I tried to tell you, do you believe me now, now that Medvedev himself is saying it?
We owe @Zachowon a lot for actually calling shit out for us as early as he did, and @Marduk from being able to dissect the Russian psy-ops so well.
=====Putin, like every ruler in history, dreams of ruling the entire world.
The issue is one of feasibility.
Your side always talks about "putin's ambitions".
Our side always talked about "putin's threat"
People said Russia is not a threat to us. Not because Putin does not dreams he was god emperor of the world
(same dream biden, soros, and every slimy oligarch have every night)
But because of the feasibility of russia ever getting anywhere near us.
Putin is going to stall, die of old age, and then russia will balkanize again and collapse under corruption.
meanwhile we are too sick and ill to project power internationally. our current focus should be towards fighting the swamp. Who are the greatest threat to us.
===Which is a clear contradiction of what I said. And what I said is clearly that there are so many bigger threats than putin.
Roughly in order (but not exactly)
CIA, FBI, ATF, IRS, NSA, WEF, tech cartels (especially google), oligarchs, Soros, Gates, obama, woke cult, entire Demonrat party, 90% of RINOcuck party,USA communists, teachers union, K12 education, liberal inquisition in universities, child groomers, ADL (antisemite development league), USPS union, trans trenders, feminism, LGBTQP, banks, mexican drug cartels entering the USA, mass migration, child traffickers, and many more are existential threats inside the USA that take vastly higher priority than putin.
then outside the USA the biggest threats in exact order are:
1. EU
2. Cadana (totalitarian commie country with near parity that shares a border. very close ties to CCP)
3. UK (soon to be a muslim state with nukes)
4. france (soon to be a muslim state with nukes)...
5. australia (communists part of the globalist alliance. armed with modern USA weaponry. mass importing CCP citizens)
6. china
7. maybe russia. possibly I forgot a few bigger threats that rank above it. Putin himself ranks 1 spot below russia since russia might possibly flourish after he passes of old age.
Putin is so far down the list of threats it is not even funny.
Putin dreams of world domination, same as 99% of all govt officials and oligarchs.
But he has less than one in a million chance of ever threatening the USA before he dies of old age and Russia fractures.
him being a bone stuck in the throats of the WEF globalists is potentially even to our favor. As they spend their resources fighting him instead of oppressing us.
Although it might potentially not be, as it also seems to have sent a bunch of neocons into a tizzy and made them turn on those who would be their allies against the real threats which I listed above.
That may work in a poorly coded strategy game, but not in reality.> I tried to tell you
Stop strawmanning
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Ukraine should have signed the peace treaty they negotiated before and then immediately joined NATO.
Doomdoomdoom.jpgInstead they fought to the bitter end, and are now losing.
Russia will end up seizing the whole country. Because they suddenly found themselves with an unexpected opportunity.
The west is exhausted and weak, and Ukraine is a spent force.
denial isn't just a river in egypt. If the Russians occupy Lviv you and a dozen others here will be laughing at how terrible they're performing and discussing how hilarious its gonna be once the Ukrainians kick them out. Meanwhile today Ukraine and the west aren't laughing because Russia is winning and has a real shot at taking large chunks of Ukraine.That may work in a poorly coded strategy game, but not in reality.
In reality Russia would have used what pull it still has in western countries to slow the already challenging bureaucratic process (look how long it took Sweden with its relatively smaller controversy) and use it as an excuse to invade before this happens.
So moot point, this was never a real option.
Doomdoomdoom.jpg
"Winning" at a WW1 scale of "winning". It's pure propaganda winning, the "victories" on the ground are in the style of "we moved the frontline a dozen miles or two and took a small city we fought for over a year, and it cost us a couple divisions worth of infantry and armored vehicles".denial isn't just a river in egypt. If the Russians occupy Lviv you and a dozen others here will be laughing at how terrible they're performing and discussing how hilarious its gonna be once the Ukrainians kick them out.
Yeah, sure, Russia is just about to finally pull off proper maneuver warfare with troops worse equipped and more conscript heavy than what they had in early war and take large chunks of Ukraine with it, Kyiv in 3 days.Meanwhile today Ukraine and the west aren't laughing because Russia is winning and has a real shot at taking large chunks of Ukraine.
Increasingly harsh terms as war goes on isn't unprecedented but certainly isn't so normal that "how it works" is a reasonable characterization. The examples that spring to mind are total wars, especially where one side has gained the upper hand and is clearly on a trajectory to crushing the other side by brute force.Guess what? Thats how it works in war. First you get the easy terms and as time goes on those terms get worse and worse. Ukraine rejected the early terms. Now they get worse and worse.
Now lets compare this to the terms for russia, which calls for the complete withdrawal of all russian forces from territory claimed by ukraine, the russian leadership being put on trial and the transfer of control of russia's energy sector to western interests.
There is total war. in fact we have a proxy WW3 that is about to become a literal WW3.Increasingly harsh terms as war goes on isn't unprecedented but certainly isn't so normal that "how it works" is a reasonable characterization. The examples that spring to mind are total wars, especially where one side has gained the upper hand and is clearly on a trajectory to crushing the other side by brute force.
"Proxy WW3" sounds to me like literal nonsense. What world is the proxy for what other world? Also, Ukraine is not on the cusp of sparking WW3.There is total war. in fact we have a proxy WW3 that is about to become a literal WW3.
...what?But as the western economies are all tumbling down the situation looks ever more bleak for ukraine.
Economically, the West isn’t doing so good. In fact it hasn’t been for the past few years, but things are getting worse. There’s been a variety of factors, but the war in Ukraine has played a part....what?
Most nations that are supporting Ukraine, are spending the GDP equivalent of spare change.Economically, the West isn’t doing so good. In fact it hasn’t been for the past few years, but things are getting worse. There’s been a variety of factors, but the war in Ukraine has played a part.
If that trend continues, sooner or later a choice will have to be made between continuing to sending funding and military supplies to Ukraine- and risk pissing an already thoroughly irritated civilian population to the point where they might break out the guillotines- or cutting back in order to fix problems at home.
Nice narrative you have here, pointing a spotlight on an issue you really care about...Economically, the West isn’t doing so good. In fact it hasn’t been for the past few years, but things are getting worse. There’s been a variety of factors, but the war in Ukraine has played a part.
If that trend continues, sooner or later a choice will have to be made between continuing to sending funding and military supplies to Ukraine- and risk pissing an already thoroughly irritated civilian population to the point where they might break out the guillotines- or cutting back in order to fix problems at home.
Most nations that are supporting Ukraine, are spending the GDP equivalent of spare change.
Further, the issues causing serious economic harm are not supporting Ukraine, but their own domestic policies, particularly retarded green energy policies and the usual glut of bureaucratic over-regulation. Rolling that nonsense back would do far more than dropping support for Ukraine.
Further, the war is hurting Russia economically as well, most likely far more, but it's hard to be certain through all the BS that's being used to smoke-screen the real state of things. The Russian economy is much more likely to break down due to war expenditures than western economies.
The point you are missing is that the other factors are not equal in weight. The case of Ukraine has its own value, and the costs are spare change compared to the "other factors" that are actual drivers of West's problems, hundreds of times more impactful than the cost of Ukraine support.I did say there other factors. And yes the green energy policies and those of de-industrialization are ‘retarded’.