Sino-Indian War of 2020! (or the Brawl in the Nathu La!)

Husky_Khan

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
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www.newsweek.com

Chinese, Indian troops engage in 150-strong border brawl with fistfights and stone throwing, Delhi says

The two nations share a border some 2,520 miles long, parts of which remain disputed and have prompted fighting in the past.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

So apparently there was much stone throwing and fist fighting but no reports of serious casualties in this brawl which had upwards of 150 participants.

There were previous incidents at this location, the most famous being in 1967 when the Chinese Army machine gunned Indian engineers who were laying barbed wire across the pass before commencing an attack on Indian positions. However the Indian Army took advantage of their defensive positions and the Chinese supporting bunkers were pre-sited by Indian forces. Over the next few days, every Chinese attack was beaten back and numerous Chinese bunkers destroyed. Over four hundred Chinese and 88 Indian soldiers were killed. The Chinese later admitted somewhat more then 32 casualties suffered during the incident... :unsure:
 
Well these border fights have escalated to throwing rocks from shoving.

That's not insignificant.

This could be a harbinger of things to come. India is suffering badly because of China hiding the virus, and angry about the misinformation China supported which has now put India in a bad way.
 
Why are they so common? Surely the men are restrained from this kind of stuff?

Or is discipline that poor?
 
I think it's quite the opposite, discipline is quite good, but the land claims of both sides overlap and the higher ups on both sides demand that border guards police the borders exactly where their maps show it to be, resorting to all means, short of diplomatic incident levels of violence. So the result is constant brawling as border guards from both sides try to push each other back, harsh words and occasional fist fight.

Personally, I think this is a big missed chance, they could have made it much bigger tourist attraction than the dance offs on the Pakistan border. They should call Vince McMahon, gather their roid beasts and do the border wrestling federation.
 
Cherico said:
In a true Sino indian war Chinese troops flow down like crazy and the indian navy cuts China off from middle eastern crude.

from there its a race against time if India holds out china runs out of power and have mass starvation, if China pushes hard or fast enough they win and they have to push hard.
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Doesn't India have Gurkhas?
 
The main thing is... in air force, artillery, tanks, IFV's/APC's, ballistic/cruise missiles, naval vessels and everything else, the Chinese military outnumbers the Indian Armed Forces by a factor of like 2.5 to 3. to one at best. So in a straight up match the Indian Military can't compete. Combined with that, the Chinese GDP is like 24 trillion and the Indian GDP is 9 trillion and change. Plus China has a larger industrial sector. About the only parity the Indian Army has is in actual military size and possessing the same amount of combat brigades (about 120 of them) but as you can readily tell, they are far less mechanized (but still motorized) and have far less firepower.

But almost all of that is obliviated by the fact that the ENTIRE Sino-Indian border is literally mountains. Furthermore, most of China that is actually bordering India is on the Tibetan Plateau. India has dozens of military bases including airbases in Northern India. China has like... two? in Tibet.

In theater, India will have a significant advantage and can keep it for several weeks while China will have to move it's Air Force and ballistic missile forces all the way to Tibet to attempt to rain death on the Indian forces. And their firepower and mechanization won't be of much use on the Sino-Indian border. Light infantry is where it's at and India has more of it and more experience fighting in mountains. If it's a "short and localized" conflict so to speak like India's Wars with Pakistan, India would likely have the advantage.

And China's Navy (beyond its nuclear submarines) probably won't be able to play a significant part in the campaign while Indian Navy could significantly impact Chinese trade with the Middle East and Africa.

Obviously in a long war China might be able to hammer its way through since over a period of months to years it could bring its superior economy and industrial capacity to bear but then there are so many butterflies that who knows how that would go.
 
China's main problem is that they are highly dependent on middle eastern crude.

As in they need it to keep the power on, they need it to make fertilizer, they need it to fuel their warmachine, they need it for pretty much every thing and in order to get that crude large slow moving tankers have to go through a host of hostile island chains past india go to the middle east pick a side in a centuries long knife fight, then go past india past that hostle island chain and back to china.

If this process is shut down for any reason China will have to determine which cities get electricity which cities get to gas up their cars and which cars get the gas, and they have to decide who gets to eat. India's navy is more then well equipted enough to cut china off from the oil supply so once again its a race against time before China a country that already has to import food at todays current level of prosperity experiences mass starvation.
 
Husky_Khan said:
The main thing is... in air force, artillery, tanks, IFV's/APC's, ballistic/cruise missiles, naval vessels and everything else, the Chinese military outnumbers the Indian Armed Forces by a factor of like 2.5 to 3. to one at best. So in a straight up match the Indian Military can't compete. Combined with that, the Chinese GDP is like 24 trillion and the Indian GDP is 9 trillion and change. Plus China has a larger industrial sector. About the only parity the Indian Army has is in actual military size and possessing the same amount of combat brigades (about 120 of them) but as you can readily tell, they are far less mechanized (but still motorized) and have far less firepower.

But almost all of that is obliviated by the fact that the ENTIRE Sino-Indian border is literally mountains. Furthermore, most of China that is actually bordering India is on the Tibetan Plateau. India has dozens of military bases including airbases in Northern India. China has like... two? in Tibet.

In theater, India will have a significant advantage and can keep it for several weeks while China will have to move it's Air Force and ballistic missile forces all the way to Tibet to attempt to rain death on the Indian forces. And their firepower and mechanization won't be of much use on the Sino-Indian border. Light infantry is where it's at and India has more of it and more experience fighting in mountains. If it's a "short and localized" conflict so to speak like India's Wars with Pakistan, India would likely have the advantage.

And China's Navy (beyond its nuclear submarines) probably won't be able to play a significant part in the campaign while Indian Navy could significantly impact Chinese trade with the Middle East and Africa.

Obviously in a long war China might be able to hammer its way through since over a period of months to years it could bring its superior economy and industrial capacity to bear but then there are so many butterflies that who knows how that would go.
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I'm not sure how much that matters? Given they would be attacking through the highest and largest mountain range on earth?

India would fight defensively and then the Chinese bash their heads against their defenses.

Of course if Pakistan joins China, then Indian resources will be split along two fronts but the Chinese would be suffering ridiculously high losses even if they pushed the Indians further south.
 
Lord Invictus said:
I'm not sure how much that matters? Given they would be attacking through the highest and largest mountain range on earth?

India would fight defensively and then the Chinese bash their heads against their defenses.

Of course if Pakistan joins China, then Indian resources will be split along two fronts but the Chinese would be suffering ridiculously high losses even if they pushed the Indians further south.
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That's literally what I said bro... Gotta read past the first paragraph. (y)
 
Isem said:
Tbh, from what I've heard about Indian military procurement it's probably for the best that they used their fists since those are in all likelihood more reliable then the weapons they're issued with.
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So, I've heard stories....good grief, was the INSAS as much of a disaster as they say it was?
 
Tiamat said:
So, I've heard stories....good grief, was the INSAS as much of a disaster as they say it was?
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From what I know from hearing about it on SB and my own digging, the Indians tried to make a gun based off the AK a gun which is famous for reliability and the FAL and instead got a gun that amongst other things jammed, had it's magazines break in the cold of the Himalayas, randomly went from 3 round burst to full auto, spat hot oil into the eyes of the people firing it and broke the magazines that it used. The Nepalese called it substandard (because they literally stopped working during a 10 hour battle after they overheated) and said it made their men's jobs harder meanwhile the Indians tried to say both the Nepalese and their own troops were just mishandling it. Their police force dropped the gun saying it was unreliable. And there was an inquiry by the courts into it though the DOD managed to defend it by saying that causalities couldn't be blamed on the weapon and that they were replacing it soon. In the end they abandoned it and swapped to AKs and other non homemade weapons. Oh and it was also needlessly complicated, expensive to make (significantly more expensive then an AK) and had important parts that were prone to breaking.

So in summary, not only was the gun massively more expensive, it was complete dogshit in every aspect it could be.
 
Isem said:
From what I know from hearing about it on SB and my own digging, the Indians tried to make a gun based off the AK a gun which is famous for reliability and the FAL and instead got a gun that amongst other things jammed, had it's magazines break in the cold of the Himalayas, randomly went from 3 round burst to full auto, spat hot oil into the eyes of the people firing it and broke the magazines that it used. The Nepalese called it substandard (because they literally stopped working during a 10 hour battle after they overheated) and said it made their men's jobs harder meanwhile the Indians tried to say both the Nepalese and their own troops were just mishandling it. Their police force dropped the gun saying it was unreliable. And there was an inquiry by the courts into it though the DOD managed to defend it by saying that causalities couldn't be blamed on the weapon and that they were replacing it soon. In the end they abandoned it and swapped to AKs and other non homemade weapons. Oh and it was also needlessly complicated, expensive to make (significantly more expensive then an AK) and had important parts that were prone to breaking.

So in summary, not only was the gun massively more expensive, it was complete dogshit in every aspect it could be.
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There is a thread, "Really Bad Small Arms", mind if I quote you? 😉
 
www.hindustantimes.com

Casualties on our side too, says Chinese media on LAC clash with India

India China border row: Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson had earlier said he was not aware of any fatalities in the Galwan valley clash between soldiers of India and China
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com

One Indian soldier killed and and at least two injured in border clashes with PLA. China also stated they sustained some casualties in a border clash which seemed to involve throwing stones and beating at each other with rods.

The Chinese editor of the Global Times de-escalated the situation by stating in a tweet that they do not fear a clash with India.

 
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