Culture Southerners. Appalachia, Moonshine and NASCAR, a Carl Manvers Diversionary Special

Cherico

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I find it funny, being raised in the "Racist" south you honestly dont see it as much.

Also I find it funny because people will blame China for this for a long time.
yeah because the CCP is directly to blame, they really do deserve the blame for this one, and not blaming them for it will make things worse because they wont learn from it.
 

Zachowon

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yeah because the CCP is directly to blame, they really do deserve the blame for this one, and not blaming them for it will make things worse because they wont learn from it.
And we must be clear. We can Blame the CCP but not the people of china. We can disagree with thier eating habits but thier government were the ones to hide it.
 

CarlManvers2019

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I find it funny, being raised in the "Racist" south you honestly dont see it as much.
Are you from the "Deep South" specifically? Not sure what they mean by the Deep South aside from references to that Deliverance movie

Course, I bet lots of people forget how surprisingly educated and technological farmers in the rural areas are

If the "Deep South" were really a thing, then that'd mean you have actually a VERY small number of "hillbillies" right out of a horror movie around who barely have tech
 

Shadepen97

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Are you from the "Deep South" specifically? Not sure what they mean by the Deep South aside from references to that Deliverance movie

Course, I bet lots of people forget how surprisingly educated and technological farmers in the rural areas are

If the "Deep South" were really a thing, then that'd mean you have actually a VERY small number of "hillbillies" right out of a horror movie around who barely have tech
The only Hillbillies I know built their own cabin and private airfield.

Edit: I accidentally put my statement into the quote box earlier.
Edit 2: They are also really nice and happen to be far less racist than the people in Chicago or New York.
 

S'task

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Are you from the "Deep South" specifically? Not sure what they mean by the Deep South aside from references to that Deliverance movie
Actually, Deep South has little to do with the stuff portrayed in Deliverance. To give a basic overview of things:

"The South" in the US refers to these areas more or less:
1590350869734.png

The "Deep South" is these States more or less:
1590350918553.png

What was being portrayed in Deliverance wasn't the "Deep South" but rather the Appalachian regions of the US. That corresponds to parts of these States that contain the Appalachian Mountains:
1590351243451.png
 

CarlManvers2019

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Actually, Deep South has little to do with the stuff portrayed in Deliverance. To give a basic overview of things:

"The South" in the US refers to these areas more or less:
View attachment 159

The "Deep South" is these States more or less:
View attachment 160

What was being portrayed in Deliverance wasn't the "Deep South" but rather the Appalachian regions of the US. That corresponds to parts of these States that contain the Appalachian Mountains:
View attachment 162
So those areas are or are not populated by extremely dangerous hillbillies?
 

S'task

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So those areas are or are not populated by extremely dangerous hillbillies?
They are not, no more than any region with a mildly insular culture is. In fact, the Applachian stereotype is one of the few highly negative stereotypes still allowed in American media because it's about a predominately white population. If it was about any other ethnic group it long ago would have been seen as what it is.

Bear in mind, the stereotype is founded on long conflicts between ethnic groups dating back to before the foundation of the United States. You see, the heartland of the Appalachian mountains, the Shenandoah Valley and the Applachian mountains of Virginia and West Virginia., were predominated settled by the Presbyterian Scots-Irish. Meanwhile they the Piedmont and Tidewater of Virginia was settled by the Anglican English.

So, there was a pre-existing serious divide there culturally dating back to colonial times. Take all the English negative stereotypes about the Irish (Scots-Irish means "Protestant Irish" effectively, but it's more complicated than that) and transplant them to how the English colonists of the region felt towards the Appalachians. Then add in the Slavery issue. You see, the Appalachian Scots-Irish were not really that big on the entire "slavery" system and you frequently saw routes of the underground railroad moving through their territory. Further, economically speaking the slave plantation system that dominated the South in the 18th and 19th centuries was not economical for the Appalachians, leading to those regions being economically disadvantaged (and thus politically disadvantaged) compared to the wealthy elite regions of the South... furthering division. And, of course, with such hostile divisions between them on major political, religious, and ethnic issues, the wealthy English descended elites, who controlled the media and academia of the South, tended to portray them as backwards subhumans.

Then came the Civil War. Remember: Virginia used to hold all the territory of what is now Virginia and W. Virginia, what West Virginia is was the counties of Virginia that refused to secede from the Union in the Civil War and while you also had many folks from the Appalachians fighting for the Confederacy, it was much more Unionist than anywhere else in the South.

But we're not done yet. In the post Civil War era you'd expect the Appalachian parts of the South to have been favored by the Federal government since they were a hotbed of Unionists through the war. But you'd be wrong. You see the Appalachian mountains are some of the oldest mountains in the world and at one time in deep ancient history they were on the sea bed right before a major die off. Which means that the Applachian mountains have some of the most significant and high quality coal deposits in the world. Northern industrialists and the railroads absolutely, positively NEEDED that coal, and they would stop at nothing to get it as cheaply as possible. So they weaponized County, State, and even the Federal government against the folks of Appalachia to steal land, force them into employment in the mines in the worst kind of situation, and did everything they could to prevent them from unionizing (up to and including deploying the Pinkertons and US Army against them). In order to justify such oppressive measures the industrial elites and media of the time continued to subject the Applachian folks to highly negative portrayals in media.

This continues to this day, as the Appalachian culture is highly religious in protestant Christianity. It was highly influential in the Charismatic movement, the Fundamentalist, and to this day it is Appalachia that is the home of many of the Conservative Christian strongholds, for instance, Falwell's Liberty University is situated in an Appalachian city. They also are one of the strongest proponents of expansive gun rights in the US and, due to the aforementioned long history of negative involvement of State and Federal government, tend to be highly skeptical of government intervention into things (and I haven't even touched on things like Prohibition and how that negatively impacted Appalachia).

This means that almost all Appalachian values are at odds with the values of the urban elites, and as such, they are consistently demonized in media.
 

CarlManvers2019

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generally speaking if your polite and respectful their not dangerous if you decide to steal their stuff, insult their culture and be a douche bag then your going to have a bad time.
But they’re Southerners and don’t live in Urban Areas and maybe have some non-Northern accent and might be Conservatives

You have the right to do stuff like going into their farms, calling them inbred racist mysogynistic nazi pieces of shit and stealing their rabbits and turkeys because animal abuse and stuff
 

Knowledgeispower

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But they’re Southerners and don’t live in Urban Areas and maybe have some non-Northern accent and might be Conservatives

You have the right to do stuff like going into their farms, calling them inbred racist mysogynistic nazi pieces of shit and stealing their rabbits and turkeys because animal abuse and stuff
Of course you might end up in a shallow grave if you do so but hey needs of the many right?
 
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S'task

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But they’re Southerners and don’t live in Urban Areas and maybe have some non-Northern accent and might be Conservatives

You have the right to do stuff like going into their farms, calling them inbred racist mysogynistic nazi pieces of shit and stealing their rabbits and turkeys because animal abuse and stuff
No, no they're not.

Appalachian Culture is distinct from Southern culture. There crossover and overlap, of course, as any cultrues that are geographically proximate tend to have, but from everything from linguistically (the Appalachian English Dialect is considered quite distinct from the Southern American English Dialect) to ethnically (the aforementioned English vs Scots-Irish divide), to economically (resource extraction and sustenance farming vs industrial farming and export), to socially ("Appalachian" is universally a low class social standing whereas "Southern" had both low class and upper class social standings with some of the highest elites in America are various points in history belonging to the Southern classification).
 

CarlManvers2019

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No, no they're not.

Appalachian Culture is distinct from Southern culture. There crossover and overlap, of course, as any cultrues that are geographically proximate tend to have, but from everything from linguistically (the Appalachian English Dialect is considered quite distinct from the Southern American English Dialect) to ethnically (the aforementioned English vs Scots-Irish divide), to economically (resource extraction and sustenance farming vs industrial farming and export), to socially ("Appalachian" is universally a low class social standing whereas "Southern" had both low class and upper class social standings with some of the highest elites in America are various points in history belonging to the Southern classification).
Doubt many even know what you’re talking about

Point is, extremely simplified, they’re all a bunch of socially backwards, uneducated, violent, technologically illiterate, stupid, inbred, bigoted, smelly, dirty(and poor)white trash who are a blight on the more “sophisticated”, “progressive”, “educated”, “cultured”, “diverse” and way better off Star Trek-esque utopia

Whether it’s true or not, doesn’t matter, this “Memetic Weapon” as Aaron Fox accidentally made a nice term for me, is one that is extremely effective and hard to get rid off even if you show evidence to the contrary

Maybe just maybe, if things get bad enough, there will be plans to destroy them all

I think the Urban & Rural Divide is something that sorta isn’t necessarily accounted for by socialist or near-socialist thought.....course they like the hammer & sickle even if they kill and replace all the ones who use the latter
 

S'task

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Doubt many even know what you’re talking about
Actually, most Americans know and recognize the difference between Appalachian and Southern stereotypes. They might not call them by that name, they might think it's a "Hillbilly" stereotype vs "Southern" stereotype or other possible divides, but not all portrayals of Appalachian stereotypes are negative, and in fact, the most recent major media portrayal of the traditional Appalachian stereotypes actually has been a highly positive, if underplayed one:


Yes, Applejack from the recently ended My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic toy series is built on Appalachian stereotypes. Firstly, her (and her family's) accent is explicitly noted to be an Ozark's Accent, which is a specific accent native to the Appalachian dialect of English, spoken predominately in southern Missouri and northern Arkansas. The ideals of honesty, intergenerational family, as well as being farmed noted for growing apples (apples are a major cash crop of the Appalachian mountains), the extended family clan including settlers in not!Texas (Texas is a noted region that saw considerable number of Appalachian emigration) while also having family members who live much deeper in the mountains to having an honest to goodness family feud between the Apple and the Pear family... everything about Applejack and the Apple family are very well founded in traditional Appalachian stereotypes. She's also one of the main characters and a positive role model and hero character within the series.

So how about you stop with your doom and gloom and acting like you inherently understand the complex interactions between American cultures and society. It's not as simple as urban vs rural, northern vs southern, or left vs right. It's actually very complex and interwoven.
 

CarlManvers2019

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@S’task
Okay, though TBH I think even depictions of rurals and other “oppressors” can be sorta “inconsistent” or vary between creator to creator or if they feel like using mean stereotypes because they’re used to hearing about it themselves or want to make a sort of social commentary of sorts that’s “deep” and such
 

LordsFire

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But they’re Southerners and don’t live in Urban Areas and maybe have some non-Northern accent and might be Conservatives

You have the right to do stuff like going into their farms, calling them inbred racist mysogynistic nazi pieces of shit and stealing their rabbits and turkeys because animal abuse and stuff
Seriously, would it kill you to lighten up? At this point, I skip every third or fourth of your posts on any thread, because I'm sick of all the bloody negativity that you are constantly spewing.

If you can't contribute something constructive, please consider 'contributing' less.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Seriously, would it kill you to lighten up? At this point, I skip every third or fourth of your posts on any thread, because I'm sick of all the bloody negativity that you are constantly spewing.

If you can't contribute something constructive, please consider 'contributing' less.
Can't really stop, but I gotta admit something else, these sorts of dudes doing stuff like breaking into farms and causing trouble are NOT really reproducing

Or probably even actually making money, they're just sort of wallowing in some sort of idea that they're revolutionaries whilst the people they hate are being "selfish" but actually doing better than them, ironically helping more and being happy

These guys aren't gonna survive for long and will grow tired....and Trump will probably win 2020 if he's NOT assassinated


Americans have an "instinctive aversion towards government" weird

That said to a degree, these guys make some sense....not that simply giving up your freedoms will really fix everything
 
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Lord Invictus

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@CarlManvers2019 I'm a southerner, not an Appalachian.

Like my paternal ancestors crossed North Carolina in the late 18th century, they fought for the confederacy, and IIRC were slave owners(well I know one was). One of my ancestors was with Lee at Appomattox. I live relatively close to Appalachia, so while I can say the cultures are related, they are definitely not the same.

Appalachians were poor, the south could be poor or rich. Appalachians followed certain strands of Christianity, Southern Christianity in general was less...exuberant.

So please don't talk about what you know absolutely nothing about.
 
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Zachowon

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I was born in Appalachia/midwest, but raised in the south.
There is only one state that takes that an it is Ohio where I was born.

My family is from all over mainly Kentucky west virginia and Michigan.
We are all northers/midwest since we were born.
 
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