Starfleet Ground Troops vs 40k Space Marines

[The Original Sixth]

A 10vs10 squad battle

Starting distance: 4 kilometers.
Area: Standard California-like desert planet with rocks, hills, and valleys.

Scenario 1 -- Standard Gear (Starfleet; phaser IIIs, Phaser IIs, tricorders, communicators, flak jackets)
Scenario 2 -- Ground forces equipped with personal force fields, photon grenades, and grenade launcher (with accompanying grenades--a case carrying 6)

Both groups are intent on eliminating the other. What is the outcome and how does each group do?

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

What are the Space Marines equipped with exactly? Just chainswords and bolters or something more?

Tentatively I would say the Marines win scenario 1. While tricorders would grant the redshirts amazing intel the Marines greater speed/reflexes would make them much harder to hit while their armor will at least provide some protection against the Redshirt's phasers requiring either higher settings or longer dwell times to burn through. Conversely nothing the Redshirts have will remotely slow down the jet bullet bolters fire.

The Marines likely lose scenario 2 however. Personal forcefields increase the odds of a Redshirt surviving either a direct hit or shrapnel from a near miss. Using tricorders to track the Marines, the Redshirts should be able to make their six photon grenades count pretty effectively while coordinating to mop up.

 

[The Original Sixth]

What are the Space Marines equipped with exactly? Just chainswords and bolters or something more?

Whatever a 10 squad would carry down to a planet. I expect flamers wouldn't be of any real use here though.

Tentatively I would say the Marines win scenario 1. While tricorders would grant the redshirts amazing intel the Marines greater speed/reflexes would make them much harder to hit while their armor will at least provide some protection against the Redshirt's phasers requiring either higher settings or longer dwell times to burn through. Conversely nothing the Redshirts have will remotely slow down the jet bullet bolters fire.

I agree that the Space Marines have greater speed/reflexes, but I don't think that's going to play as big a role as you might think. If you recall Arena:

KIRK: Keep him alive, Bones. I want to know what's been happening here.
SPOCK: Getting another life reading, Captain.
KIRK: Survivors?
SPOCK: Not survivors. Not warm-blooded. Living creatures, but not human.
KIRK: Where?
SPOCK: Azimuth ninety three degrees, range one five seven zero yards.
KIRK: O'Herlihy

The Gorn were 1,570 yards away (roughly--and we all know how fast they move) when they opened fire on Kirk and his crew (who had beamed down to the ruined colony). That's 1,435.6 meters or about 1.5 kilometers. I expect the Space Marines can return fire, but those phasers are no joke. Even at the output that Kirk and his crew were firing (equal to setting 8), we're talking about a direct energy transfer of approximately 15 kj delivered over 1.75 seconds (or approximately 7.5 kilowatts). Its estimated penetration of alloyed targets is 120cm. The SEM:NDF is 1:3.

That's of course, assuming that no-one just adjusts their phaser to one of the other 8 higher level settings.

I agree that the UFP soldiers will basically have nothing to protect them against a bolter round, though. It sort of seems to come down to who can shoot who first. The Space Marines are probably better shooters, have better reflexes, and better training, but the UFP is aiming at much larger targets in bright colors (typically) and they're got targeting systems in the phaser to aid them.

The Marines likely lose scenario 2 however. Personal forcefields increase the odds of a Redshirt surviving either a direct hit or shrapnel from a near miss. Using tricorders to track the Marines, the Redshirts should be able to make their six photon grenades count pretty effectively while coordinating to mop up.

I'm not actually sure how useful the personal forcefields will be. The shields, according to the TNG TM, would top out at around 2.858 kilojoules. Not shameful...but not exactly anything to write home about when your enemy's weapons probably carry around 14 KJ of energy in just the kinetic energy of the bullet. The grenade launcher is probably the real kicker. Those grenades are basically low-end tactical nukes.

 

[Yinko]

The thing that I think would make the biggest difference is the capacity for violence. Trek, arguably, has a higher tech level but their ground forces aren't even trained security, and their security are effectively rent-a-cops. The exception is very specific periods where the Federation was in a state of all-out war with some faction or other. Contrast that with hyper-violent super-soldiers who have many centuries of experience in the arts of bloodshed?

I hate for it to be yet another case of "40k wins again " but it seems like it's going to be that way.

 

[The Original Sixth]

The thing that I think would make the biggest difference is the capacity for violence. Trek, arguably, has a higher tech level but their ground forces aren't even trained security, and their security are effectively rent-a-cops. The exception is very specific periods where the Federation was in a state of all-out war with some faction or other. Contrast that with hyper-violent super-soldiers who have many centuries of experience in the arts of bloodshed?

I hate for it to be yet another case of "40k wins again " but it seems like it's going to be that way.

I think that's a rather silly exaggeration. First, these aren't Starfleet Security forces, they're soldiers. Second, even those "rent-a-cops" receive monthly training. In fact, all shipboard personnel is required to undergo training every four months (see below). Third, we might expect that after the Dominion War, the Federation probably relearned some lessons in regard to ground warfare, considering how they'd engaged in it for a couple of years.

TNG TM

Personnel Training and Operations
All Starfleet and attached personnel receive initial basic instruction on the operation and use of a low-power variant of the Type I phaser (limited to setting 3). All Starfleet officers receive advanced training and are issued full-power Type I phasers as personal defensive arms. During Alert conditions aboard the ship and during away missions, the Security Division will oversee the distribution of Type II units. Training for the use of Type III phaser rifles is available on starbases only.

Continued proficiency training in defensive techniques is maintained at four-month intervals for shipboard personnel, and at one-month intervals for Away Team candidates. Each Security Division officer's continuing phaser training progresses at varied rates, depending on individual specialties.

You do make an excellent point in regard to experience, but I would argue that the whole "centuries of experience" is overblown. Honestly, after 20 years of practice at a skill, there probably isn't much else you can learn unless you're learning new areas of that discipline. For example, the difference between 25 years of gunnery and 55 years of gunnery is probably negligible, so you probably spend those 25 years mastering another skill, such as piloting.

I would argue that while the Space Marines do have some advantages in holding a century or two of experience, actually mastering things like shooting probably caps out at a point where Federation Troops are competitive, even if they aren't nearly as experienced in the art of war as your average Space Marine.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I would argue that while the Space Marines do have some advantages in holding a century or two of experience, actually mastering things like shooting probably caps out at a point where Federation Troops are competitive, even if they aren't nearly as experienced in the art of war as your average Space Marine.

For the SM it's a matter of training to a level that humanity can't even recognize. The reflexes, speed and strength that generic SM have is such that they can regularly pip a target in the eye while running flat out. It's pure stupid levels of accuracy. Hell, in fluff they are good enough to use the bolter as an indirect fire weapon upon occasion.

Also, tac marines have been known to achieve sprint speeds in excess of 90mph/144kph. What this means is that the Space Marines will be able to see the photon grenades coming before they reach the top of their ballistic arc. They'll be able to tell where the grenades are going to land, and they'll be able to move out of the area or put cover between them and the impact point. The only time those grenades will have an impact is when they are used in direct fire situations in 'danger close' ranges. So it's likely that Starfleet will either waste the rounds or nuke themselves to kill/maim a space marine.

Also remember that every space marine come equipped with numerous frag and krak grenades as well, and they have the strength to employ those grenades at ranges Starfleet will not initially expect.

As for special/heavy weapons...the SM Tactical squad will have its choice to field 1 special weapon & 1 heavy weapon

Special Weapons
Plasma Rifle: Your shields just became meaningless, and it fires as rapidly as bolter, and can by overcharged to destroy your cover
Meltagun: Shorter range, but whatever it hits dies messily
Gravgun: We crush you with the power of gravity, your shields are meaningless
Grenade Launcher: use those frag/krak grenades at ranges longer than the bolter
Combi-Weapon (sergeant only): not automatic but possible; two weapons in one! Bolter & Special weapon

Heavy Weapons (note-they can fire on the run with all these weapons as well, though accuracy will go down a bit)
Heavy Bolter: Machine Gun Bolter with a more powerful round and 50% greater range...shields get shredded then people do
Autocannon: More range and power than the heavy bolter
Missile Launcher: Choose from frag/krak missiles with seeking heads!
Plasma Cannon: Longer ranged and more powerful; area effect blasts
Grav Cannon: More powerful, more range, more shots! Yup, it'll pretty much ignore your shields too.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Wait... so Hand Phasers have effective combat ranges of 1500 meters? This is despite them apparently having no proper sights, much less optics? Can we get more explanation on what sort of auto aiming or tracking these Phasers must apparently have and why it was presumably discontinued centuries later?

Honestly if the Away Team can use their Hand Phasers to hit targets casually 1500 meters away one handed, I don't see why they couldn't just hit the grenades on the Space Marines bandoleer at a more reasonable range of say a thousand meters. Or shoot the Plasma Guns out of the Space Marines hands and reduce them to slag. Probably could theoretically intercept missiles with their phaser fire as well... because why not? Dialogue seems pretty clear and it's so vague you can fill it in with whatever reasoning you want.

 

[Yinko]

I think that's a rather silly exaggeration.

All that may be true, but completely ignores my main claim. The Federation is an inherently pacifist society, the Imperium inherently sanguinary. The defining bedrock of an army is the character of its men, not the tools they use.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Wait... so Hand Phasers have effective combat ranges of 1500 meters? This is despite them apparently having no proper sights, much less optics? Can we get more explanation on what sort of auto aiming or tracking these Phasers must apparently have and why it was presumably discontinued centuries later?

Honestly if the Away Team can use their Hand Phasers to hit targets casually 1500 meters away one handed, I don't see why they couldn't just hit the grenades on the Space Marines bandoleer at a more reasonable range of say a thousand meters. Or shoot the Plasma Guns out of the Space Marines hands and reduce them to slag. Probably could theoretically intercept missiles with their phaser fire as well... because why not? Dialogue seems pretty clear and it's so vague you can fill it in with whatever reasoning you want.

Personally I'd wouldn't necessarily say "effective". From the episode it's unclear if they even hit anything or indeed were even specifically aiming for individual targets rather than trying to lay down suppression fire.

What the Gorn are using as a weapon is unclear. At times it seems to act like a phaser/disrupter, when it hits a human target, but other times acts more like a mortar. There's a "whistling" sound then an explosion.

For the SM it's a matter of training to a level that humanity can't even recognize. The reflexes, speed and strength that generic SM have is such that they can regularly pip a target in the eye while running flat out. It's pure stupid levels of accuracy. Hell, in fluff they are good enough to use the bolter as an indirect fire weapon upon occasion.

From what I've seen Marines are badly inconsistent and "rule of plot" based. Sometimes they react as a blur faster than a human can react...and other times a human can hold his own even land a blow in a sword fight.

Edit: Expanding on Marines being inconsistent it's not even different depictions, even within the same section Marines can feel schizophrenic. Take this excerpt from Spear of the Emperor:

'We take him together,' I said, sounding far surer than I felt.

'What do we–'

The door exploded against us. My miscalculation almost killed us both, as the Adeptus Astartes warrior chose not to take cover; he chose to break through ours with a bull-rush charge. The bulkhead was ripped from its hinges, crashing to the deck. Tyberia and I were thrown across the gantry floor in clatters of carapace armour. I could hear him over the cacophony, the predatory snarling of his armour joints, the sickly, atomic keening of his power pack: behind me, above me, close, so close.

I moved faster then, than ever before or ever since. I rolled to my back, bringing my Engager up towards the towering shadow, firing at point-blank range. I had one split second of vindication: that Engagers were Space Marine-killers; that he was close enough to hit; that no matter my fear, he couldn't survive a blast like this.

The shotgun roared in my hands.

I missed.

The shadow above me was a blur of motion. My hands moved without thought, chambering another round. Crunch-click. I fired again.

And missed again. My senses were half a second behind the warrior's blurring movements. As I fired, he was already weaving away with protesting armour joints. As I chambered a shell, he was already raising his blade.

He kicked the Engager from my hands, hard enough that my fully bionic arm sent a knife of pain through my shoulder. Gunless and on the ground before this god of war, I discharged my terminus-eye. The blast lasered through my helmet, destroying my visor, lancing past the shadow's raised arms. I missed again. The terminus beam relied on striking where I was looking, and I could barely follow his movements.

Tyberia's Engager barked from the side. The descending sword sparked with detonating shell fragments and whirled from the warrior's hand. She caught his weapon, but we couldn't hit him. We could barely see him.

On one hand the text clearly wants to impress upon the reader the speed of the Marine. How the lowly human soldier is constantly, forever just too slow to land a hit even up close. Yet said human is constantly aware of what the Marine is doing, even distinctly noticing when said Marine raised his sword to strike, even having plenty of reaction time to not only fire his Engager and was in process of chambering a second round before it was kicked away but still had time to try and use his eye weapon.

Hell the viewpoint character's teamate, Tyberia, actually lands a hit on the marine's sword. Which incidentally heavily cap how tough these "Space-Marine Killers" Enganger shells can be in this instance considering one exploding practically in the human narrator's face not only didn't kill him he barely seem to notice other than the sparks hitting the blade.

 

[Marduk]

On one hand the text clearly wants to impress upon the reader the speed of the Marine. How the lowly human soldier is constantly, forever just too slow to land a hit even up close. Yet said human is constantly aware of what the Marine is doing, even distinctly noticing when said Marine raised his sword to strike, even having plenty of reaction time to not only fire his Engager and was in process of chambering a second round before it was kicked away but still had time to try and use his eye weapon.

Hell the viewpoint character's teamate, Tyberia, actually lands a hit on the marine's sword. Which incidentally heavily cap how tough these "Space-Marine Killers" Enganger shells can be in this instance considering one exploding practically in the human narrator's face not only didn't kill him he barely seem to notice other than the sparks hitting the blade.

a) Sounds like they are wearing carapace armor with visors mentioned... as such, of course what little leftover fragmentation of a shell designed to be an armor piercing rather than area weapon would be harmless.
b) Bionic arm? Laser eye? Those are some seriously enhanced by 40k standards humans, not basic flesh and bone ones, leagues beyond even "wounded commissar got a replacement cyber arm", probably accordingly well trained in combat too.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

a) Sounds like they are wearing carapace armor with visors mentioned... as such, of course what little leftover fragmentation of a shell designed to be an armor piercing rather than area weapon would be harmless.
b) Bionic arm? Laser eye? Those are some seriously enhanced by 40k standards humans, not basic flesh and bone ones, leagues beyond even "wounded commissar got a replacement cyber arm", probably accordingly well trained in combat too.

The narrator had a helm through the use of the laser eye destroyed the visor. Further the shell didn't pierce the sword but rather "sparked with detonating shell fragments" before being knocked from the Marine's grip which suggests the energy had to be absorbed by the length of the sword rather than it over penetrating and depositing itself farther away. So even with a shaped charge a lot should be bouncing back into the trooper.

I'm not seeing why a bionic arm is that impressive or how it's leagues better than the one a "wounded commissar" would get. Cain's a commissar and has bionic fingers and would have presumably gotten a whole hand had the Necron guass rifle been any closer.

Even laser eyes are not unheard off. Commissar Yarrick had one done to live up to the "evil eye" Orks claimed he had.

And of course at no point during the confrontation is anything said about enhanced reflexes.

 

[The Original Sixth]

For the SM it's a matter of training to a level that humanity can't even recognize.

It doesn't seem like they're so superhuman that none of these guys are going to even have a chance to fight back. Hand to hand or even close range, I expect the Space Marines to dominate unless thrown against large numbers, but that isn't the case here.

The reflexes, speed and strength that generic SM have is such that they can regularly pip a target in the eye while running flat out. It's pure stupid levels of accuracy. Hell, in fluff they are good enough to use the bolter as an indirect fire weapon upon occasion.

There is evidence to support your claim of skilled shooting, but that's not really beyond human capability either. There are some damn fast shooters out there who can empty a gun in the blink of an eye. And with high accuracy too.

Also, tac marines have been known to achieve sprint speeds in excess of 90mph/144kph.

They must need some time to build up speed then because I've never actually seen a Space Marine ever reach 144 kph when it would be useful. Or is it simply for short spurts?

What this means is that the Space Marines will be able to see the photon grenades coming before they reach the top of their ballistic arc. They'll be able to tell where the grenades are going to land, and they'll be able to move out of the area or put cover between them and the impact point. The only time those grenades will have an impact is when they are used in direct fire situations in 'danger close' ranges. So it's likely that Starfleet will either waste the rounds or nuke themselves to kill/maim a space marine.

And do what? Elite sprinters still need 6-7 seconds to reach top speeds. Given that Space Marines don't seem to act like they're in an episode of Dragonball Z, I expect that it probably takes them at least the same amount of time to reach top speed. Looking at the scene from Arena:



The grenade is fired at around 1:29 and detonates at around 1:30. That's 1 kilometer traveled in 1 second or 3,600 kph. Even if I were to agree that a Space Marine could hit top speed instantly, they'd make it maybe 40-80 meters before the grenade hit. The grenade itself is also incredibly powerful. You can see a breeze from the explosion pass over the three after it detonates; that suggests they're somewhat outside 1 PSI shockwave blast. They're just over a kilometer away. A 100 ton bomb's 1 PSI shockwave would reach out to 550 meters, so that's well within reasonable estimations.

NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein

I sincerely doubt that if they get a lock on with their grenade launcher, any of the Space Marines would survive if they were caught in the open.

Also remember that every space marine come equipped with numerous frag and krak grenades as well, and they have the strength to employ those grenades at ranges Starfleet will not initially expect.

As for special/heavy weapons...the SM Tactical squad will have its choice to field 1 special weapon & 1 heavy weapon

Special Weapons
Plasma Rifle: Your shields just became meaningless, and it fires as rapidly as bolter, and can by overcharged to destroy your cover
Meltagun: Shorter range, but whatever it hits dies messily
Gravgun: We crush you with the power of gravity, your shields are meaningless
Grenade Launcher: use those frag/krak grenades at ranges longer than the bolter
Combi-Weapon (sergeant only): not automatic but possible; two weapons in one! Bolter & Special weapon

Heavy Weapons (note-they can fire on the run with all these weapons as well, though accuracy will go down a bit)
Heavy Bolter: Machine Gun Bolter with a more powerful round and 50% greater range...shields get shredded then people do
Autocannon: More range and power than the heavy bolter
Missile Launcher: Choose from frag/krak missiles with seeking heads!
Plasma Cannon: Longer ranged and more powerful; area effect blasts
Grav Cannon: More powerful, more range, more shots! Yup, it'll pretty much ignore your shields too.

I sincerely doubt the personal forcefields would stop the bolters rounds, let alone the heavier stuff, although the ability to destroy cover easily would be a big bonus.

Wait... so Hand Phasers have effective combat ranges of 1500 meters? This is despite them apparently having no proper sights, much less optics?

TOS Phasers have built-in reflex sights. The emitter on the phaser basically acts as a camera for the user (Atomic Rockets, Reflex Sights). You can see them if you were to pay close attention to their phasers and how they adjust them. See for yourself.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/sidearmenergy/reflexAimsight.jpg

Kirk isn't eyeballing it, he's got a small display screen on his phaser that shows him exactly what his phaser is pointed at.

Can we get more explanation on what sort of auto aiming or tracking these Phasers must apparently have and why it was presumably discontinued centuries later?

DS9's Return to Grace

KIRA: We captured a lot of them during the occupation. It's a good weapon, solid, simple. You can drag it through the mud and it'll still fire. Now this. (Federation phaser rifle.) This is an entirely different animal. Federation standard issue. It's a little less powerful, but it's got a more options. Sixteen beam settings. Fully autonomous recharge, multiple target acquisition, gyro stabilised, the works. It's a little more complicated, so it's not as good a field weapon. Too many things can go wrong with it.

DS9 Shakaar

That's a Bajoran using the holographic sights on his rifle. Kira had a similar one on hers.

Nemesis:

You can see a sight atop Picard's rifle. There's more, but I trust you get the point.

Honestly if the Away Team can use their Hand Phasers to hit targets casually 1500 meters away one handed, I don't see why they couldn't just hit the grenades on the Space Marines bandoleer at a more reasonable range of say a thousand meters. Or shoot the Plasma Guns out of the Space Marines hands and reduce them to slag. Probably could theoretically intercept missiles with their phaser fire as well... because why not? Dialogue seems pretty clear and it's so vague you can fill it in with whatever reasoning you want.

No, actually the dialogue for Arena is very clear:

Distance established:

SPOCK: Not survivors. Not warm-blooded. Living creatures, but not human.
KIRK: Where?
SPOCK: Azimuth ninety three degrees, range one five seven zero yards.

A bit later:

SPOCK: We're hopelessly outnumbered here, Captain. It's those disruptors versus our hand phasers.
KIRK: We're stuck with it, Mister Spock. We'll have to make do with what we've got.
KIRK: Kelowitz, Lang, flank out. Lay down fire on coordinates Mister Spock gave you. Even if you don't see them. Keep your heads down.

Spock specifically states that they're outnumbered and that it's the Gorn disruptors vs the Starfleet hand phasers. The only other weapon introduced was the grenade launcher that Kirk found. Essentially, they were using their hand weapons as low-end artillery pieces. As for why there was a difference between people being disintegrated vs the artillery-like explosions, we already know that phasers act differently based upon what they hit. A phaser set to 16 will simply disintegrate a person it hits, whereas it would also blow a hole through a rock wall without any trouble.

Bibliography
Energy Weapon Sidearms - Atomic Rockets
The Star Trek Transcripts - Arena
The Deep Space Nine Transcripts - Shakaar

 

[Marduk]

The narrator had a helm through the use of the laser eye destroyed the visor. Further the shell didn't pierce the sword but rather "sparked with detonating shell fragments" before being knocked from the Marine's grip which suggests the energy had to be absorbed by the length of the sword rather than it over penetrating and depositing itself farther away. So even with a shaped charge a lot should be bouncing back into the trooper.

There is also no specific mention of how much damage did or didn't the chainsword take and if it remained functional.
Fragments from a small, grenade sized at most shaped charge (we are not talking about a friggin anti tank missile here) hit would be completely harmless to carapace armor, doubly so Astartes power armor.

Also a laser beam would just make a small hole in the visor not completely melt the whole thing.

I'm not seeing why a bionic arm is that impressive or how it's leagues better than the one a "wounded commissar" would get. Cain's a commissar and has bionic fingers and would have presumably gotten a whole hand had the Necron guass rifle been any closer.

Even laser eyes are not unheard off. Commissar Yarrick had one done to live up to the "evil eye" Orks claimed he had.

And of course at no point during the confrontation is anything said about enhanced reflexes.

Yarrick is a named hero character, not your average commissar, famous for... beating an ork warboss in melee before even getting augmented, something most Astartes would consider an achievement worth bragging about.

In RT books a baleful eye implant has a rarity rating equal to archeotech laspistols and graviton guns, beyond even plasma weapons and power armor. Bionic limbs vary greatly in quality and rarity accordingly, but from the sound of this one, it was one of the better ones. And that's just the mentioned augmentations of these people what kind of stuff did they have that wasn't directly obvious, like sense and reflex improvements?
Just because they weren't mentioned in this particular scene, doesn't mean they didn't have those, and the things that did get mentioned suggested they did have access to some rare gear normally reserved for most elite combatants like temple assassins, inquisitors, notable heroes, or filthy rich rogue traders.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

It doesn't seem like they're so superhuman that none of these guys are going to even have a chance to fight back.

It's the combination of training and enhancement. If the peak human is a 10, then the peak Astartes is probably around a 50. They are that much more impressive and superhuman. What really makes the Astartes stand out is the fact that they train to fully take advantage of that 50. Starfleet does NOT train to take advantage of their 10. They pretend their tech will do everything for them.

If you can't keep a steady hand...your shot will miss no matter how good the targeting sights.

There are some damn fast shooters out there who can empty a gun in the blink of an eye. And with high accuracy too.

Absolutely. Astartes do it 10 times faster.

 

[The Original Sixth]

It's the combination of training and enhancement. If the peak human is a 10, then the peak Astartes is probably around a 50. They are that much more impressive and superhuman. What really makes the Astartes stand out is the fact that they train to fully take advantage of that 50. Starfleet does NOT train to take advantage of their 10. They pretend their tech will do everything for them.

Again, I'm not seeing this sort of DBZ-level fighting and skill. They're good, don't get me wrong. Better than any human would in their situation, but these guys are not the supermen that some posters seem to wish that they were. We've seen actual video of these guys fighting and disregarding the occasional tactical/strategic incompetence because of Rule of Cool, they're not exactly going to be cutting down UFP soldiers like they're Sonic the Hedgehog.

If you can't keep a steady hand...your shot will miss no matter how good the targeting sights.

Actually, that's not true in this case.

KIRA: We captured a lot of them during the occupation. It's a good weapon, solid, simple. You can drag it through the mud and it'll still fire. Now this. (Federation phaser rifle.) This is an entirely different animal. Federation standard issue. It's a little less powerful, but it's got a more options. Sixteen beam settings. Fully autonomous recharge, multiple target acquisition, gyro stabilized, the works. It's a little more complicated, so it's not as good a field weapon. Too many things can go wrong with it.

From atomic rockets:

GYROSTABILIZED1, REFLEX SIGHT1

With penetration, range, and repeatability dealt with, it is time to turn to accuracy. Lack of recoil, automatic fire capability, and line-of-sight accuracy are all major assets here, but there is one more improvement to be made. Both lasers and particle beams can be steered at least a degree or two off-axis, in the case of the laser via the adaptive-optic mirror, for particle beams with a transverse magnetic field at the muzzle.

If we can throw in a chip-mounted laser or acoustic gyro set, we can have a gyrostabilized handgun. The weapon shoots not at where the gun is pointed at the instant of firing, but at a weighted average of where it has been pointing over the past quarter of a second or so. Smoothes out a lot of the jitter inherent in human marksmanship.

You'd probably want to integrate this feature with the weapon's sights. A reflex-type optical sight could have an LED display linked to the gyrostabilizer, rather than a fixed reticule. The dot, or crosshairs, would then indicate the actual shot path and would remain similarly stable under jitter.

Energy Weapon Sidearms - Atomic Rockets

So yeah, between the multiple target acquisition and the fact that the rifle can compensate for jitters a moment before the shot, you can actually compensate for a great deal of problems.

Absolutely. Astartes do it 10 times faster.

Really? Because those Ultramarines certainly didn't.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

WTF is Atomic Rockets, and I why do I care what his opinion is?

Also, the idea that the mid-range of my jittery aiming BS while panicked and on adrenaline will somehow magically be the target is freekin' hilarious!

 

[The Original Sixth]

WTF is Atomic Rockets, and I why do I care what his opinion is?

It's a website dedicated to portraying future tech as accurately as possible. It even goes into complicated calculations about realistic space travel with scientifically plausible engines. Or how particle weapons are likely to irradiate your nuts if not properly designed.

Also, the idea that the mid-range of my jittery aiming BS while panicked and on adrenaline will somehow magically be the target is freekin' hilarious!

Did you read what it said? A particle weapon or a laser could fire off-axis to some degree. So even if you shift a bit when you fire, the rifle itself can compensate because the actual emitter is still pointing at the target. Now, if you start swinging your rifle around so that this is not at all possible or is too confusing for the computer--then yes, you will wildly miss. But as of yet, apart from characters who are shown to be cowardly or have gotten really bad jitters, Starfleet doesn't seem to miss their targets by miles and miles.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Did you read what it said? A particle weapon or a laser could fire off-axis to some degree. So even if you shift a bit when you fire, the rifle itself can compensate because the actual emitter is still pointing at the target. Now, if you start swinging your rifle around so that this is not at all possible or is too confusing for the computer--then yes, you will wildly miss. But as of yet, apart from characters who are shown to be cowardly or have gotten really bad jitters, Starfleet doesn't seem to miss their targets by miles and miles.

It's not about missing by miles. It's about simply missing. Which is extremely common. Considering most of the firefights are at dueling pistol ranges...I'm not convinced the tech is that impressive.

 

[The Original Sixth]

It's not about missing by miles. It's about simply missing. Which is extremely common. Considering most of the firefights are at dueling pistol ranges...I'm not convinced the tech is that impressive.

You will now, of course, substantiate the claim that Starfleet misses excessively.

EDIT

Looking through an old thread at SB, Viv went through all the seasons of TNG to see phaser accuracy. Obviously, it's not an exhaustive list of Starfleet combat accuracy, but we can get an idea of how well they do.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/phaser-analysis-thread.122267/

There are two that he goes through where they're on the phaser range. The phaser range is basically a room where you practice hitting small moving or appearing targets. In general the range is 20 ft, but they simulate further ranges by having smaller dots you need to hit.

TNG's A Matter of Honor:
Range: 20 ft
Shots: 15
Hits: 11-13
Miss: 2-4
Accuracy: 73% to 86%

Redemption
Range: 20 ft
Results: 4/7 for Worf, 9/9 for Guinan. Worf seemed to be having an off-day.
Accuracy: 57% for Worf, 100% for Guinan

Beyond that, I went through most of the combat situations.

Hide and Q
Range: N/A
Shots: 2
Hits: 2
Miss: 0
Accuracy: 100%

Too Short a Season
Range: 30+ ft
Shots: 2
Hits: 2
Miss: 0
Accuracy: 100%

The Arsenal of Freedom
Range: N/A
Shots: 4+5 (9)
Hits: 2 + 2 (4)
Miss: 2 + 3 (5)
Accuracy: 36%
Note: They were fighting small and fast-moving, mobile drones.


The Vengeance Factor
Range: 40 ft
Shots: 7
Hits: 1
Miss: 3
Unknown: 3
Accuracy: 14% to 57%

The Hunted
Range: 1 at 10 ft/1 at 2 ft/3 at 20 ft/1 at 30 ft
Shots: 6
Hit: 4 (1 at 10 ft/ 1 at 2 ft/ 2 at 20 ft)
Miss: 2 (1 at 20 ft/1 at 30 ft)
Accuracy: 66.66%

Legacy
Range: 10 ft / N/A / 15 ft / 10 ft
Shots: 2/1/3/1 (7 shots total)
Hits: 2/Unknown/2/1 (5 hit total)
Miss: 0/Unknown/1/0 (1-2 misses)
Unknown: 1
Accuracy: 71% to 85%

Schisms
Range: 10 ft
Shots: 1
Hits: 1
Miss: 0
Accuracy: 100%

Chain of Command
Range: 3 to 20 ft
Shots: 5
Hits: 2
Miss: 2
Unknown: 1
Accuracy: 40% to 60%

Aquiel
Range: 5-10 ft
Shots: 2
Hits: 2
Miss: 0
Accuracy: 100%

Descent Part 1
Range: 10-15 ft / 10-15 ft
Shots: 8 seen, 21 heard / 3
Hits: 3 / 2
Miss: 3 / 1
Unknown: 23
Accuracy: 50% or less in the first engagement as low as 10%, 66.66% in the second.

Descent Part 2
Range: 20-30 ft
Shots: 6 seen, 1 heard
Hits: 3
Missed: 0
Unknown: 4
Accuracy: As low as 42.8% to possibly 100%

Gambit
Range: 20-30 ft
Shots: 13 seen, 3 heard
Hits: 0
Missed: 16
Accuracy: 0%
Note: The crew had been ambushed and a firefight resulted, but the enemy managed to escape with no casualties, so viv presumes that none of the pirates had been hit, although it's possible one or two of them had been stunned but rescued.

Overall, we have the lowest showing, which was Gambit.

Going with the more intense fights, we see:
Arsenal of Freedom: -- 36%
Vengeance Factor -- 14% to 57%
The Hunted -- 66.66%
Legacy -- 71% to 85%
Chain of Command -- 40% to 60%
Descent Part I -- One fight is between 10-50% and the other is 66.66%
Descent Part II -- 42.8% to 100%
Gambit -- 0%
Phaser Range (Worf & Guinain) -- 57% for Worf, 100% for Guinan
Phaser Range (Riker and Picard) -- Doesn't detail who hit what, but they had a 73% to 86% hit rate.

Overall, it looks as though Starfleet typically has an accuracy range between 40 to 60%. I can't find any reliable source right now on how often soldiers hit their marks, but at 7 yards or less, NYC police tend to hit their targets 37% of the time (Watts). 7 yards is approximately 21 feet, so which accounts for a lot of these engagement ranges. At further than 7 yards, NYC accuracy fell to 23%. In gunfights, NYC accuracy rate dropped to 18% and in situations of no return fire, had an accuracy rate of 30% (Watts).

Regardless, going by the accuracy of hits, Starfleet certainly shouldn't be referred to as "rent-a-cops".

EDIT -- Oops, forgot to link the source.

Bibliography
PolitiFact - Do more than 7 in 10 police bullets miss their mark, as this gun control advocate said?

 

[Zachowon]

There is also no specific mention of how much damage did or didn't the chainsword take and if it remained functional.
Fragments from a small, grenade sized at most shaped charge (we are not talking about a friggin anti tank missile here) hit would be completely harmless to carapace armor, doubly so Astartes power armor.

Also a laser beam would just make a small hole in the visor not completely melt the whole thing.

Yarrick is a named hero character, not your average commissar, famous for... beating an ork warboss in melee before even getting augmented, something most Astartes would consider an achievement worth bragging about.

In RT books a baleful eye implant has a rarity rating equal to archeotech laspistols and graviton guns, beyond even plasma weapons and power armor. Bionic limbs vary greatly in quality and rarity accordingly, but from the sound of this one, it was one of the better ones. And that's just the mentioned augmentations of these people what kind of stuff did they have that wasn't directly obvious, like sense and reflex improvements?
Just because they weren't mentioned in this particular scene, doesn't mean they didn't have those, and the things that did get mentioned suggested they did have access to some rare gear normally reserved for most elite combatants like temple assassins, inquisitors, notable heroes, or filthy rich rogue traders.

The book spear of the Emperor.
I can get more quotes about what the things can do.
He is forgetting ot mention that the chaos marine was basically dodging and swatting away thier shots.

And it is an inquistor that was being attacked by the marine