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October 28th, 1980
SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE:
GOVERNOR RONALD REAGAN (R-CA) VS VICE PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER (D-GA)
Convention Center Music Hall
Cleveland, OH
Ruth Hinerfeld, League of Women Voters, Education Fund: "Good evening. I'm Ruth Hinerfeld of the League of Women Voters Education Fund. Next Tuesday is Election Day. Before going to the polls, voters want to understand the issues and know the candidates' positions. Tonight, voters will have an opportunity to see and hear the major party candidates for the Presidency state their views on issues that affect us all. The League of Women Voters is proud to present this Presidential Debate. Our moderator is Howard K. Smith."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Thank you, Mrs. Hinerfeld. The League of Women Voters is pleased to welcome to the Cleveland, Ohio, Convention Center Music Hall Vice President Jimmy Carter of Georgia, the Democratic Party's candidate for the Presidency and Governor Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party's candidate for the Presidency. The candidates will debate questions on domestic, economic, foreign policy, and national security issues. The questions are going to be posed by a panel of distinguished journalists who are here with me. They are: Marvin Stone, the editor of US News & World Report; Harry Ellis, national correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor; William Hilliard, assistant managing editor of the Portland Oregonian; Barbara Walters, correspondent, ABC News. The ground rules for this, as agreed by you gentlemen, are these: Each panelist down here will ask a question, the same question, to each of the two candidates. After the candidates have answered, a panelist will ask follow up questions to try to sharpen the answers. The candidates will then have an opportunity each to make a rebuttal. That will constitute the first half of the debate, and I will state the rules for the second half later on. Some other rules: The candidates are not permitted to bring prepared notes to the podium, but are permitted to make notes during the debate. If the candidates exceed the allotted time agreed on, I will reluctantly but certainly interrupt. We ask the Convention Center audience here to abide by one ground rule. Please do not applaud or express approval or disapproval during the debate. Now, based on the toss of the coin, Governor Reagan will respond to the first question from Marvin Stone."
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Governor, as you're well aware, the question of war and peace has emerged as a central issue in this campaign in the give and take of recent weeks. President Brown has been criticized for responding late to aggressive Soviet impulses, for insufficient build-up of our armed forces and a paralysis in dealing with Afghanistan and Iran. You have been criticized for being all too quick to advocate the use of lots of muscle-military action-to deal with foreign crises. Specifically, what are the differences between yourself and Vice President Carter on the uses of American military power?"
Governor Reagan: "I don't know what the differences might be, because I don't know what Vice President Carter's policies are. I do know what he has said about mine. And I'm only here to tell you that I believe with all my heart that our first priority must be world peace, and that use of force is always and only a last resort, when everything else has failed, and then only with regard to our national security. Now, I believe, also, that this meeting this mission, this responsibility peculiar to our country, and that we cannot shirk our responsibility as a leader of the free world because we're the only ones that can do it. Therefore, the burden of maintaining the peace falls on us. And to maintain that peace requires strength. America has never gotten in a war because we're too strong. We can get into a war by letting events get out of hand, as they have in the last three and a half years under the foreign policies of this administration that Mr. Carter is part of, until we're faced each time with a crisis. And good management in preserving the peace requires that we control the events and try to intercept before they become a crisis. I have seen four wars in my lifetime. I'm a father of sons; I have a grandson. I don't ever want to see another generation of young Americans bleed their lives into shady beacheads in the Pacific, or rice paddies and jungles in the in Asia or the muddy battlefields of Europe."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Mr. Stone, do you have a follow-up question for the Governor?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes. Governor, we've been hearing that the defense build-up that you would associate yourself with would cost tens of billions of dollars more than is now contemplated. Assuming the American people are ready to bear this cost, they nevertheless keep asking the following question: How do you reconcile huge increases in military outlays with your promise of substantial tax cuts and of balancing the budget, which in this fiscal year, the one that just ended, ran more than $60 billion in the red?"
Governor Reagan: "Mr. Stone, I have submitted an economic plan that I have worked out in concert with a number of fine economists in this country, all of whom approve it, and believe that over a five year projection, this plan can permit the extra spending for needed refurbishing of our defensive posture, that it can provide for a balanced budget by 1983 if not earlier, and that we can afford-along with the cuts that I have proposed in government spending-we can afford the tax cuts I have proposed and probably mainly because Mr. Carter's economic policy is a continuation of the Brown administration's disastrous economic policy, which has built into the next five years, and beyond that, a tax increase that will be taking $86 billion more out of the people's pockets than was taken this year. And my tax cuts do not come close to eliminating that $86 billion increase. I'm only reducing the amount of the increase. In other words, what I'm talking about is not putting government back to getting less money than government's been getting, but simply cutting the increase in spending."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "The same question goes to Vice President Carter. Vice President Carter, would you like to have the question repeated?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes, Vice President Carter, the question of war and peace, a central issue in this campaign. You and the Brown administration have been criticized for, in the give and take, for responding late to aggressive Soviet impulses, for an insufficient build-up of our armed forces, and a paralysis in dealing with Afghanistan and Iran. Governor Reagan, on the other hand, has been criticized for being all too quick to advocate the use of lots of muscle-military action-to deal with foreign crises such as I have mentioned. Specifically, what are the differences between the two of you on the uses of American military power?"
Vice President Carter: "Mr. Stone, under the Brown-Carter administration over the past four years, we had to make thousands of decisions since I have been serving as Vice President. And with each one of those decisions that affect the future of my country, I have learned in the process. I think I'm a much wiser and more experienced man than I was when I debated four years ago. I've also learned that there are no simple answers to complicated questions. H.L. Mencken said that for every problem there's a simple answer. It would be neat and plausible and wrong. The fact is that this nation, in the eight years before President Brown and I took office, had its own military strength decreased. Seven out of eight years, the budget commitments for defense went down, 37%, in all. Since the Brown-Carter administration has been in office, we've had a steady, carefully planned, methodical but, very effective increase in our commitment for defense. But what we've done is use that enormous power and prestige and military strength of the United States to preserve the peace. We've not only kept peace for our own country, but we've been able to extend the benefits of peace to others. In the Middle East, we've worked for a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, successfully, and have tied ourselves together with Israel and Egypt in a common defense capability. This is a very good step forward for our nation's security, and we'll continue to do as we have done in the past. I might also add that there are decisions made in the Oval Office by every President if either of us is elected next Tuesday, which is profound in nature. There are always trouble spots in the world, and how these troubled areas are addressed alone in that Oval Office affects our nation directly, the involvement of the United States and also our American interests. That is a basic decision that has to be made so frequently, by every President who serves. That is what the Brown-Carter administration has tried to do successfully by keeping our country at peace."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Mr. Stone, do you have a follow-up for?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes. I would like to be a little more specific on the use of military power and let's talk about one area for a moment. Under what circumstances would you use military forces to deal with, for example, a shut-off of the Persian Oil Gulf (sic) if that should occur, or to counter Russian expansion beyond Afghanistan into either Iran or Pakistan? I ask this question in view of charges that we are woefully unprepared to project sustained-and I emphasize the word sustained-power in that part of the world."
Vice President Carter: "Mr. Stone, earlier this year, I pointed out that any threat to the stability or security of the Persian Gulf would be a threat to the security of our own country. In the past, we have not had an adequate military presence in that region. Now we have two major carrier task forces. We have access to facilities in five different areas of that region. And we've made it clear that working with our allies and others, that we are prepared to address any foreseeable eventuality which might interrupt commerce with that crucial area of the world. But in doing this, we have made sure that we address this questions peacefully, not injecting American military forces into combat, but letting the strength of our nation be felt in a beneficial way. This, I believe, has assured that our interests will be protected in the Persian Gulf region, as we have done in the Middle East and throughout the world."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Governor Reagan, you have a minute to comment or rebut."
Governor Reagan: "Well yes, I question the figure about the decline in defense spending under the three previous administrations preceding eight years to this administration. I would call to your attention that we were in a war that wound down during those eight years, which of course made a change in military spending because of turning from war to peace. I also would like to point out that Republican presidents in those years, faced with a Democratic majority in both houses of the Congress, found that their requests for defense budgets were often cut. Now, Nelson Rockefeller left a five-year projected plan for a military build-up to restore our defenses, and President Brown's administration reduced that by 38 percent, cutting 60 ships out of the Navy building program that had been proposed, and stopped the B-1, delayed the cruise missile, stopped the production line for the Minuteman missile, stopped the Trident or delayed the Trident submarine, and now is planning a mobile military force that can be delivered to various spots in the world which does make me question his assaults on whether I am the one who is quick to look for use of force."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Vice President Carter, you have the last word on this question."
SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE:
GOVERNOR RONALD REAGAN (R-CA) VS VICE PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER (D-GA)
Convention Center Music Hall
Cleveland, OH
Ruth Hinerfeld, League of Women Voters, Education Fund: "Good evening. I'm Ruth Hinerfeld of the League of Women Voters Education Fund. Next Tuesday is Election Day. Before going to the polls, voters want to understand the issues and know the candidates' positions. Tonight, voters will have an opportunity to see and hear the major party candidates for the Presidency state their views on issues that affect us all. The League of Women Voters is proud to present this Presidential Debate. Our moderator is Howard K. Smith."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Thank you, Mrs. Hinerfeld. The League of Women Voters is pleased to welcome to the Cleveland, Ohio, Convention Center Music Hall Vice President Jimmy Carter of Georgia, the Democratic Party's candidate for the Presidency and Governor Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party's candidate for the Presidency. The candidates will debate questions on domestic, economic, foreign policy, and national security issues. The questions are going to be posed by a panel of distinguished journalists who are here with me. They are: Marvin Stone, the editor of US News & World Report; Harry Ellis, national correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor; William Hilliard, assistant managing editor of the Portland Oregonian; Barbara Walters, correspondent, ABC News. The ground rules for this, as agreed by you gentlemen, are these: Each panelist down here will ask a question, the same question, to each of the two candidates. After the candidates have answered, a panelist will ask follow up questions to try to sharpen the answers. The candidates will then have an opportunity each to make a rebuttal. That will constitute the first half of the debate, and I will state the rules for the second half later on. Some other rules: The candidates are not permitted to bring prepared notes to the podium, but are permitted to make notes during the debate. If the candidates exceed the allotted time agreed on, I will reluctantly but certainly interrupt. We ask the Convention Center audience here to abide by one ground rule. Please do not applaud or express approval or disapproval during the debate. Now, based on the toss of the coin, Governor Reagan will respond to the first question from Marvin Stone."
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Governor, as you're well aware, the question of war and peace has emerged as a central issue in this campaign in the give and take of recent weeks. President Brown has been criticized for responding late to aggressive Soviet impulses, for insufficient build-up of our armed forces and a paralysis in dealing with Afghanistan and Iran. You have been criticized for being all too quick to advocate the use of lots of muscle-military action-to deal with foreign crises. Specifically, what are the differences between yourself and Vice President Carter on the uses of American military power?"
Governor Reagan: "I don't know what the differences might be, because I don't know what Vice President Carter's policies are. I do know what he has said about mine. And I'm only here to tell you that I believe with all my heart that our first priority must be world peace, and that use of force is always and only a last resort, when everything else has failed, and then only with regard to our national security. Now, I believe, also, that this meeting this mission, this responsibility peculiar to our country, and that we cannot shirk our responsibility as a leader of the free world because we're the only ones that can do it. Therefore, the burden of maintaining the peace falls on us. And to maintain that peace requires strength. America has never gotten in a war because we're too strong. We can get into a war by letting events get out of hand, as they have in the last three and a half years under the foreign policies of this administration that Mr. Carter is part of, until we're faced each time with a crisis. And good management in preserving the peace requires that we control the events and try to intercept before they become a crisis. I have seen four wars in my lifetime. I'm a father of sons; I have a grandson. I don't ever want to see another generation of young Americans bleed their lives into shady beacheads in the Pacific, or rice paddies and jungles in the in Asia or the muddy battlefields of Europe."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Mr. Stone, do you have a follow-up question for the Governor?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes. Governor, we've been hearing that the defense build-up that you would associate yourself with would cost tens of billions of dollars more than is now contemplated. Assuming the American people are ready to bear this cost, they nevertheless keep asking the following question: How do you reconcile huge increases in military outlays with your promise of substantial tax cuts and of balancing the budget, which in this fiscal year, the one that just ended, ran more than $60 billion in the red?"
Governor Reagan: "Mr. Stone, I have submitted an economic plan that I have worked out in concert with a number of fine economists in this country, all of whom approve it, and believe that over a five year projection, this plan can permit the extra spending for needed refurbishing of our defensive posture, that it can provide for a balanced budget by 1983 if not earlier, and that we can afford-along with the cuts that I have proposed in government spending-we can afford the tax cuts I have proposed and probably mainly because Mr. Carter's economic policy is a continuation of the Brown administration's disastrous economic policy, which has built into the next five years, and beyond that, a tax increase that will be taking $86 billion more out of the people's pockets than was taken this year. And my tax cuts do not come close to eliminating that $86 billion increase. I'm only reducing the amount of the increase. In other words, what I'm talking about is not putting government back to getting less money than government's been getting, but simply cutting the increase in spending."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "The same question goes to Vice President Carter. Vice President Carter, would you like to have the question repeated?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes, Vice President Carter, the question of war and peace, a central issue in this campaign. You and the Brown administration have been criticized for, in the give and take, for responding late to aggressive Soviet impulses, for an insufficient build-up of our armed forces, and a paralysis in dealing with Afghanistan and Iran. Governor Reagan, on the other hand, has been criticized for being all too quick to advocate the use of lots of muscle-military action-to deal with foreign crises such as I have mentioned. Specifically, what are the differences between the two of you on the uses of American military power?"
Vice President Carter: "Mr. Stone, under the Brown-Carter administration over the past four years, we had to make thousands of decisions since I have been serving as Vice President. And with each one of those decisions that affect the future of my country, I have learned in the process. I think I'm a much wiser and more experienced man than I was when I debated four years ago. I've also learned that there are no simple answers to complicated questions. H.L. Mencken said that for every problem there's a simple answer. It would be neat and plausible and wrong. The fact is that this nation, in the eight years before President Brown and I took office, had its own military strength decreased. Seven out of eight years, the budget commitments for defense went down, 37%, in all. Since the Brown-Carter administration has been in office, we've had a steady, carefully planned, methodical but, very effective increase in our commitment for defense. But what we've done is use that enormous power and prestige and military strength of the United States to preserve the peace. We've not only kept peace for our own country, but we've been able to extend the benefits of peace to others. In the Middle East, we've worked for a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, successfully, and have tied ourselves together with Israel and Egypt in a common defense capability. This is a very good step forward for our nation's security, and we'll continue to do as we have done in the past. I might also add that there are decisions made in the Oval Office by every President if either of us is elected next Tuesday, which is profound in nature. There are always trouble spots in the world, and how these troubled areas are addressed alone in that Oval Office affects our nation directly, the involvement of the United States and also our American interests. That is a basic decision that has to be made so frequently, by every President who serves. That is what the Brown-Carter administration has tried to do successfully by keeping our country at peace."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Mr. Stone, do you have a follow-up for?"
Marvin Stone (US News & World Report): "Yes. I would like to be a little more specific on the use of military power and let's talk about one area for a moment. Under what circumstances would you use military forces to deal with, for example, a shut-off of the Persian Oil Gulf (sic) if that should occur, or to counter Russian expansion beyond Afghanistan into either Iran or Pakistan? I ask this question in view of charges that we are woefully unprepared to project sustained-and I emphasize the word sustained-power in that part of the world."
Vice President Carter: "Mr. Stone, earlier this year, I pointed out that any threat to the stability or security of the Persian Gulf would be a threat to the security of our own country. In the past, we have not had an adequate military presence in that region. Now we have two major carrier task forces. We have access to facilities in five different areas of that region. And we've made it clear that working with our allies and others, that we are prepared to address any foreseeable eventuality which might interrupt commerce with that crucial area of the world. But in doing this, we have made sure that we address this questions peacefully, not injecting American military forces into combat, but letting the strength of our nation be felt in a beneficial way. This, I believe, has assured that our interests will be protected in the Persian Gulf region, as we have done in the Middle East and throughout the world."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Governor Reagan, you have a minute to comment or rebut."
Governor Reagan: "Well yes, I question the figure about the decline in defense spending under the three previous administrations preceding eight years to this administration. I would call to your attention that we were in a war that wound down during those eight years, which of course made a change in military spending because of turning from war to peace. I also would like to point out that Republican presidents in those years, faced with a Democratic majority in both houses of the Congress, found that their requests for defense budgets were often cut. Now, Nelson Rockefeller left a five-year projected plan for a military build-up to restore our defenses, and President Brown's administration reduced that by 38 percent, cutting 60 ships out of the Navy building program that had been proposed, and stopped the B-1, delayed the cruise missile, stopped the production line for the Minuteman missile, stopped the Trident or delayed the Trident submarine, and now is planning a mobile military force that can be delivered to various spots in the world which does make me question his assaults on whether I am the one who is quick to look for use of force."
Howard K. Smith (ABC News): "Vice President Carter, you have the last word on this question."
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