What if the English Kings in the late 1200s, 1300s, and early 1400s invest their OTL Scottish and French efforts into reviving the Crusades instead? Any idea on just how successful they would have actually been in regards to this, @Chiron @Circle of Willis @stevep @History Learner?
The English Kings in the late 1200s, 1300s, and early 1400s invest their OTL Scottish and French efforts into reviving the Crusades instead
- Thread starter WolfBear
- Start date
History Learner
Well-known member
It wouldn't be in their interests, and by that point there isn't really any valid targets.
What about if they show up before Acre falls, if Acre can just hold out for at least another decade or so?
I think the key point is that as HL says its not in their interests. Scotland is a pain with continued raids on the northern provinces - even without attempts by English kings to control it which didn't exactly improve relations. They also have for most of this time large territories in France which are under continued threat by the French kings.
The only option might be possibly a different tweak of the HYW so that say ~1360 there is a peace settlement between England and France which actually proves stable. Say Edward III gives up his claim to the French throne and also to previous dynastic territory in Normandy and the like while France concedes all claims to Gascony/Aquitaine and recognizes it as a totally separate principality/kingdom under the Plantagenet dynasty. - Which I suspect would be unlikely and unstable.
However if say the Papacy managed to organise such a settlement, making clear it would be very unhappy with any breach of it and also persuades both monarchs to go on crusade.
At this time the holy land is being contested between the Mumluks in Egypt and the Mongol Ilkhanate in Persia and Iraq. The latter are still mixed in religion although the bulk of their population was probably Muslim. If some agreement was possible with the latter, although again this could be difficult, or simply the crusaders invade Egypt and gain a measure of surprise its possible that Egypt could fall and some agreement being made securing the existing crusader states - albeit no doubt under Mongol overlordship.
They really need to intervene about now or before as after that with the decline of the Ilkhanate and its conversion to Islam the odds are too great for a successful crusader revival.
Even if Henry V lives much longer, conquers all of France, and then goes on a Crusade?
He must take all of french nobles with him,or he would face rebellion.But - they could take Jerusalem again.
@History Learner @stevep What about a much earlier PoD? As in, William of Normady decides, for whatever reason, to offer his services to the Byzantine Empire rather than to try to conquer England in 1066? This was just five years before the pivotal Battle of Manzikert in eastern Anatolia. Could William's forces have actually made a difference here?
Last edited:
Hadn't the Normans operating in Italy already clashed with the empire, see Norman_conquest_of_southern_Italy for more details? As such apart from going a long way from home - instead of attacking a rich kingdom he thought he had a claim on - he would be fighting fellow Normans at least some of the time.
If your not aware after the imperial defeat at Manzikert in 1071 and the civil war that followed one of the big problems was Norman attacks on the Balkans which included some sizeable invasions.
If you want a better either Byzantine or crusader outcome possibly one thing might be if this guy, Bohemond_I_of_Antioch, was to die earlier. Didn't realise he played a part in the imperial defeat at Durazzo as that could be even better if he died before then. However his attempt to gain personal territory during the 1st crusade which ended up with him gaining control of Antioch delayed and weakened the 1st crusade and also denied the empire control of Antioch. Later he and his descendants frequently attacked imperial territory. Get rid of him early in the 1st crusade and you could well see the crusaders having more territory albeit possibly under formal imperial control which is what all swore to and bar Bohemond seems to have been willing to comply with. That might not continue given the already existing open schism between the empire and Rome but could boost both groups against the Muslin threat.