Three WWI, France, Italy, and Eastern Europe monarchy alternate history questions

[WolfBear]

1. If the French monarchy would have been restored in the early 1870s and France would have subsequently lost an alt-WWI, would the French monarchy have subsequently been overthrown?

2. If Italy would have lost WWI (either real life's WWI or an alt-WWI), would the Italian monarchy have subsequently been overthrown?

3. If the French monarchy would have been restored in the early 1870s and there would have still been an alt-WWI and the Entente/Allies would have still won this alt-WWI, but with Russia still dropping out of the war before the end of this war, would any of the newly created Eastern European countries, such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic countries, and/or Finland, have become monarchies after the end of WWI in this TL, perhaps in an attempt to please France but also because republics would have been more rare in this TL without the prior half a century example of the Third French Republic?

Any thoughts on all of this?

 

[ATP]

1. If the French monarchy would have been restored in the early 1870s and France would have subsequently lost an alt-WWI, would the French monarchy have subsequently been overthrown?

2. If Italy would have lost WWI (either real life's WWI or an alt-WWI), would the Italian monarchy have subsequently been overthrown?

3. If the French monarchy would have been restored in the early 1870s and there would have still been an alt-WWI and the Entente/Allies would have still won this alt-WWI, but with Russia still dropping out of the war before the end of this war, would any of the newly created Eastern European countries, such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic countries, and/or Finland, have become monarchies after the end of WWI in this TL, perhaps in an attempt to please France but also because republics would have been more rare in this TL without the prior half a century example of the Third French Republic?

Any thoughts on all of this?

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Poland,Finland,Baltics - yes,Czech - no,becouse A-H would not be destroyed and they would remain part of it.

 

[WolfBear]

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Poland,Finland,Baltics - yes,Czech - no,becouse A-H would not be destroyed and they would remain part of it.

Why would A-H not be destroyed?

 

[ATP]

Why would A-H not be destroyed?

Becouse destroing it was,as one french diplomat say,crime against France.Existing A-H would be France future ally against Germany,destroyed becomed fuel for growing german strenght.
Only reason why A-H was destroyed was becouse leaders of England,USA and France all hated catholics,and A-H was catholic monarchy.
French catholic kings would never allow for such cryminal stupidity.

 

[WolfBear]

Becouse destroing it was,as one french diplomat say,crime against France.Existing A-H would be France future ally against Germany,destroyed becomed fuel for growing german strenght.
Only reason why A-H was destroyed was becouse leaders of England,USA and France all hated catholics,and A-H was catholic monarchy.
French catholic kings would never allow for such cryminal stupidity.

Which royal house did French royalists like better--the House of Savoy or the House of Hapsburg-Lorraine?

 

[ATP]

Which royal house did French royalists like better--the House of Savoy or the House of Hapsburg-Lorraine?

Do not knew - but it do not matter,i think.They were no children and support those who would be better allies.As long as they remain catholics,of course.They were no bunch of machiavellan either.

 

[WolfBear]

Do not knew - but it do not matter,i think.They were no children and support those who would be better allies.As long as they remain catholics,of course.They were no bunch of machiavellan either.

One would think that the House of Savoy would be better allies for France than the House of Hapsburg would be, no?

 

[sillygoose]

One would think that the House of Savoy would be better allies for France than the House of Hapsburg would be, no?

Italy and France had a lot of territorial disputes. The French and Habsburgs were traditional allies because generally speaking they had little conflicting interests and were both anti-Prussia, but the creation of Germany changed everything as did the Franco-Russian relationship

 

[WolfBear]

Italy and France had a lot of territorial disputes. The French and Habsburgs were traditional allies because generally speaking they had little conflicting interests and were both anti-Prussia, but the creation of Germany changed everything as did the Franco-Russian relationship

Other than Nice, Savoy, and Tunisia, which territorial disputes did France and Italy have? Corsica? Good luck getting France to give it up due to it being Napoleon's birthplace!

And Yeah, after Germany was united, Austria became rather close to Germany with France becoming rather close to Russia.

And BTW, France and Prussia were previously allies in the 18th century:

Diplomatic Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sillygoose]

Other than Nice, Savoy, and Tunisia, which territorial disputes did France and Italy have? Corsica? Good luck getting France to give it up due to it being Napoleon's birthplace!

And Yeah, after Germany was united, Austria became rather close to Germany with France becoming rather close to Russia.

And BTW, France and Prussia were previously allies in the 18th century:

Diplomatic Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically those territories.
Germany and the Habsburgs were economically highly integrated and both were vulnerable to each other in the event of war, so their alliance was largely geographically enforced.

So were Prussia and Britain. And Prussia and Russia. European diplomacy was like pro-wrestling.

 

[WolfBear]

Basically those territories.
Germany and the Habsburgs were economically highly integrated and both were vulnerable to each other in the event of war, so their alliance was largely geographically enforced.

So were Prussia and Britain. And Prussia and Russia. European diplomacy was like pro-wrestling.

What historically made Prussia a better ally for the British in comparison to France? Its smaller amount of military power relative to the French?

 

[sillygoose]

What historically made Prussia a better ally for the British in comparison to France? Its smaller amount of military power relative to the French?

France was a rival, Prussia was a smaller, further away, much less threatening kingdom.
Compare that with Germany, which when formed produced about half the steel Britain did in 1880. By 1910 Germany produced double the steel of Britain. That should give you an idea of why Prussia was considered non-threatening but Germany was considered a disaster for Britain's economy.

 

[WolfBear]

France was a rival, Prussia was a smaller, further away, much less threatening kingdom.
Compare that with Germany, which when formed produced about half the steel Britain did in 1880. By 1910 Germany produced double the steel of Britain. That should give you an idea of why Prussia was considered non-threatening but Germany was considered a disaster for Britain's economy.

That's certainly fair enough as far as it goes, though it's worth noting that even a surviving Prussia with the Rhineland would have still had a lot of Germany's economic potential--albeit not all of it, obviously. The Rhineland had a lot of resources and industries, especially in the Ruhr area.

 

[sillygoose]

That's certainly fair enough as far as it goes, though it's worth noting that even a surviving Prussia with the Rhineland would have still had a lot of Germany's economic potential--albeit not all of it, obviously. The Rhineland had a lot of resources and industries, especially in the Ruhr area.

Sure, but it took the finances gained from reparations from France and a united economic unit in central Europe to actually get the German economy rolling. The German government centralized the financing of industrialization to avoid the problems of British style 'free market' industralization, which is why the Germans were able to grow so fast so quickly. Very interesting subject when you get into the nuts and bolts of how it was done and why it all happened the way it did.

 

[WolfBear]

Sure, but it took the finances gained from reparations from France and a united economic unit in central Europe to actually get the German economy rolling. The German government centralized the financing of industrialization to avoid the problems of British style 'free market' industralization, which is why the Germans were able to grow so fast so quickly. Very interesting subject when you get into the nuts and bolts of how it was done and why it all happened the way it did.

Did the French industrialize more along the British model or along the German model?

 

[sillygoose]

Did the French industrialize more along the British model or along the German model?

They had their own weird model based more on craft manufacturing of luxury goods. Britain was more mass manufacturing, but haphazardly.

 

[WolfBear]

They had their own weird model based more on craft manufacturing of luxury goods. Britain was more mass manufacturing, but haphazardly.

And what was Germany's specialty?

 

[sillygoose]

And what was Germany's specialty?

Chemicals, steel, mechanical engineering:

Industrialization in Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Industrialization of Invention: A Case Study from the German Chemical Industry on JSTOR

Georg Meyer-Thurow, The Industrialization of Invention: A Case Study from the German Chemical Industry, Isis, Vol. 73, No. 3 (Sep., 1982), pp. 363-381

www.jstor.org

The chemical industry in particular was a huge thing since it integrated science, research, production, etc. It was the original 'big science' industry that served as a model for much of the later industries that fit the mold (electronics specifically).

 

[WolfBear]

Chemicals, steel, mechanical engineering:

Industrialization in Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Industrialization of Invention: A Case Study from the German Chemical Industry on JSTOR

Georg Meyer-Thurow, The Industrialization of Invention: A Case Study from the German Chemical Industry, Isis, Vol. 73, No. 3 (Sep., 1982), pp. 363-381

www.jstor.org

The chemical industry in particular was a huge thing since it integrated science, research, production, etc. It was the original 'big science' industry that served as a model for much of the later industries that fit the mold (electronics specifically).

Will check out; thank you! And Yes, I know that Germany has been a giant cognitive hub back then, in contrast to the possible dysgenics that it is experiencing nowadays:

Dysgenic Deutschland

The Flynn effect has reversed in terms of spatial IQ, according to a big recent meta-study by Jakob Pietschnig and Georg Gittler. James Thompson has a good summary in Deutschland über alles, dann unter allen? Below is the version of the graph that has been corrected for age, sex, and sample...

www.unz.com

 

[sillygoose]

Will check out; thank you! And Yes, I know that Germany has been a giant cognitive hub back then, in contrast to the possible dysgenics that it is experiencing nowadays:

Dysgenic Deutschland

The Flynn effect has reversed in terms of spatial IQ, according to a big recent meta-study by Jakob Pietschnig and Georg Gittler. James Thompson has a good summary in Deutschland über alles, dann unter allen? Below is the version of the graph that has been corrected for age, sex, and sample...

www.unz.com

I'd argue the mass death of German men and the prostituting of German women to the Allied armies that caused the issues. Kind of hard to birth a new generation when the best men are dead and most the survivors are mostly those guys who weren't fit for military service or older guys (sperm quality drops off with age) and trauma and various chemicals people were exposed to during the war likely did not help with epigenetics. Seems like the charts that note that he problems starting in the 1970s would actually fit that theory.

I have a theory too that Feminism is causing a huge part of these issue, because educated career women, the smartest, delaying having kids so only have 1-2 if they have any at all (most don't). Given the collapse of birthrates down to levels not seen since the hyperinflation of the early 1920s, it seems that is the key issue. Immigration may not be helping, but it is a lower order effect IMHO.

Then there is the issue of pollution as well and perhaps even radiation from all the electronics we're using. Not to mention everyone getting fatter, lazier, and less social. Overreliance of computers is not helping either.