The Star Union
Tom Clancy's Endwar Earth ISOT to BattleTech.
- Thread starter Spartan303
- Start date
This is still in the idea phase. I would think continuois improvements would be a thing? What would you suggest?
If you want it to work long term, think seriously about how to merge the technical paradigms, rather than keep them separate. Anything that your ISOT earth can do must be possible for the BTech powers, and the BTech choices must not be pants-on-head durr durr durr stupid. *They* are the ones who've built interstellar empires that, despite everything, have lasted longer than damn near anything currently around on Earth. They probably know what they are about.
A fair point. An incompetent and stupid enemy makes for a poor story. I'd imagine we'd see the Clans start to adapt earlier rather than later.
Fir instance. With the Wolverines leaving as they did, many of the Clans instituted their reforms much more quickly after Nickolas died. The result is them being larger and generally better than in canon. As they encounter new weapons of war and new tactics, they'll have to adapt accordingly. Which means new tactics and technologies. Which would then play into their invasion of the IS.
Thing is, due to the way how IS and Clanner civilization developed since the Star League's fall, a Modern Earth using the tactics that they themselves used in the past, with advanced technology to back it up (again, a lot of the stuff we have today shits over Battletech's retro-futuristic technology, especially in computing power -- mix that with Wolverine stuff for over a hundred years? Yeah), this "Clancy Earth" would pretty much be an out of context problem for the IS and Clanners until they begin adapting, and even then just by trying to adapt would cause massive military and social upheavals to the current civilizations out there.
Again, I reiterate: outside of things like weapons, metallurgy, and certain bits of technology (such as the jump drive, the fibers used in mech construction, et cetera), a lot of what we, on Modern Earth, have right now shits over a lot of what Battletech has in-universe -- especially when it comes to computers. Mix that over a long period of time with what the IS and Clanners have? It's inevitable that the Battletech factions are going to have a bad time.
The "Cult of the Mechwarrior" because of how history developed for the IS and Clanners isn't just a joke stereotype. Many IS governments, include a certain batshit insane Kurita-led one, are based on it for their legitimacy. And the Clans? Yeah, no explanation needed there.
A new force breaking that paradigm with on-par or superior weapons and technology? It's not going to end well for the IS and Clanners, no matter how you look at it.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Quite honestly I think I would rather read a story without the Wolverines in it. There's some decent tension to be had if it's the much less tech-savvy but massively industrialized Earth against the more advanced but less industrialized Inner Sphere, but give Earth 'mechs, ASF, Clan Tech, etc. and it turns into wank.
You are assuming that our paradigm is in fact superior.
If you want to write an earth wank story that's one thing, but it'll be boring and rapidly turn into the same sort of crap the original turned into
If you want to write an earth wank story that's one thing, but it'll be boring and rapidly turn into the same sort of crap the original turned into
The Battletech paradigm is almost entirely based around mechs being the focal point, with light combined arms accompanying them -- that includes the Clanners with their elementals. And by light, I mean "often may as well not be there", for some reason.
I mean, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, they have vehicles in-setting which could pulverize lances of mechs if deployed properly... and they're not really used due to the "because mechs!" line of thought that dominates the IS/Clanners.
And outside of mechs, many of which are barely maintained relics with parts that are incredibly hard to replace, the quality of the aforementioned combined arms varies greatly from nation to nation (to the point where some are so archaic that it looks like the nation using them decided to be dieselpunk or steampunk!).
It's not "Earth Wank" when, in such a scenario where a Modern Earth has more advanced technology due to developing it over time, someone in charge with just basic common sense can look at what the IS/Clanners are doing and go "what the fuck?", and act accordingly.
Modern Earth not being bound by the thinking and tactics the IS/Clanners are is their greatest strength, and it's the IS/Clanners' shared weakness.
Look at it from this perspective: in the Bronze Age, chariot weapons were all the rage. They dominated warfare, and everything was based around them. There were other infantry support units, like archers and spearmen, but it all came down to the chariots and the tactics using them. They were using bronze-forged weapons.
That was all fine and dandy between those nations until third-parties invaded the region with iron weapons and more combined arms tactics than primarily relying on just chariots -- swordsmen, spearmen, archers, et cetera. The Egyptians called these groups the Sea Peoples because they were so varied and of so many origins, incidentally.
Very few civilizations survived, and Egypt was one of them at an incredibly diminished state -- all because these "wonder weapon" chariots that were the focus of their warfare before the Sea People's invasions were effectively nullified by... combined arms.
The mechs are the chariots.
You are completely missing the point.
Yes, there are vehicles in battletech that are 'stronger' than Mechs. Usually these vehicles are either highly specialized (the Alacorn) or very short ranged (Devastator and all other AC/20 tanks). They also are slow and lumbering vehicles that are primarily useful in the defensive role.
More typically, it takes an entire platoon of 12 tanks to match a lance of 4 mechs. So now you need 12 vehicle bays, which take up as much space as 12 mech bays... so I can either use smaller transports to move my mechs, or the same sized transport to move *more mechs*.
That is notwithstanding the fact that the basic conceit of the universe is that Mechs are the most efficient overall combat vehicle in the setting. If you decide that this is purely because those using it are congenital idiots too dumb to pour piss out of their boots, while your uber faction annihilates them with casual ease because reasons, then all you'll have is another boring AEWAB clone, not a good engaging Battletech story.
Yes, there are vehicles in battletech that are 'stronger' than Mechs. Usually these vehicles are either highly specialized (the Alacorn) or very short ranged (Devastator and all other AC/20 tanks). They also are slow and lumbering vehicles that are primarily useful in the defensive role.
More typically, it takes an entire platoon of 12 tanks to match a lance of 4 mechs. So now you need 12 vehicle bays, which take up as much space as 12 mech bays... so I can either use smaller transports to move my mechs, or the same sized transport to move *more mechs*.
That is notwithstanding the fact that the basic conceit of the universe is that Mechs are the most efficient overall combat vehicle in the setting. If you decide that this is purely because those using it are congenital idiots too dumb to pour piss out of their boots, while your uber faction annihilates them with casual ease because reasons, then all you'll have is another boring AEWAB clone, not a good engaging Battletech story.
I'm looking for a good story. Nation building and upteching are two parts of too it. Mechs vs Tanks and how to integrate Mechs into ISOT Earth's Tactical and strategic paradigm. Mechs will be present, but to what end? I see them both as the Left and Right hand of the overall whole.
one thing that has bugged me about BTech is that there hasn't been much improvements in terms of Starship travel for hundreds of years. Sure the Clans created a few new dropships, but from my study of actually improving Jumptech the only exception seems to be the Lucretia.
Earth and its new allies will be all about building up infrastructure and shipping capacity across this Fledgling new Nation. As they build more and more jumpships and dropships they'll start looking for ways to improve them. We do this very thing even today.
As for the Military? Bottom line, what You'd see from Earth and this potential 'Star Union' would be at (lowest) Better than Star League Mechs and vehicles to (Wolverines I don't think had full on Clan designs by then) to some Mechs able to match the Best of the Clans if not slight better but in limited numbers (highest). Building a Star Nation takes considerable time, money and resources that don't always go to Military R&D. Also, Earth is also known for having the occasionally very stupid politician that can and often does hurt the military for years. A buildup to battling the Clans would not make them immune to that.
This Fledgling Star Nations biggest strength has been its secrecy. No one cares about what goes on in the butt-fuck Periphery. Comstar has no real presence there and thus isn't a thorn in their side to hamper them. That would change in the story as it would get unwanted attention from both the Clans and the Inner Sphere.
one thing that has bugged me about BTech is that there hasn't been much improvements in terms of Starship travel for hundreds of years. Sure the Clans created a few new dropships, but from my study of actually improving Jumptech the only exception seems to be the Lucretia.
Earth and its new allies will be all about building up infrastructure and shipping capacity across this Fledgling new Nation. As they build more and more jumpships and dropships they'll start looking for ways to improve them. We do this very thing even today.
As for the Military? Bottom line, what You'd see from Earth and this potential 'Star Union' would be at (lowest) Better than Star League Mechs and vehicles to (Wolverines I don't think had full on Clan designs by then) to some Mechs able to match the Best of the Clans if not slight better but in limited numbers (highest). Building a Star Nation takes considerable time, money and resources that don't always go to Military R&D. Also, Earth is also known for having the occasionally very stupid politician that can and often does hurt the military for years. A buildup to battling the Clans would not make them immune to that.
This Fledgling Star Nations biggest strength has been its secrecy. No one cares about what goes on in the butt-fuck Periphery. Comstar has no real presence there and thus isn't a thorn in their side to hamper them. That would change in the story as it would get unwanted attention from both the Clans and the Inner Sphere.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
hmmmm
maybe have the wolverines only have found earth fairly recently....say 3000 or so. so by the 4th SW Earth is getting to a position to start making more advanced stuff like dropships and jumpships
maybe have the wolverines only have found earth fairly recently....say 3000 or so. so by the 4th SW Earth is getting to a position to start making more advanced stuff like dropships and jumpships