Transgender Athletes in Sports

Rocinante

Rocinante

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Transgender female dominates at Masters Track Cycling World Championships, complains how unfair it would be if she were excluded | Blaze Media

Did she have a leg up on the competition?
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Jesus look at her size compared to those biological women!

This is just not fair to those strong, hard working, inspirational women who put everything on the line, put their lives on hold to train, and work so damn hard to achieve greatness. Then some dude who wants to be a chick comes in and kicks their ass.

I feel bad for these awesome and hard working women, who don't deserve to be robbed of their hard work.

Look at their faces. Such disappointment. They got robbed.

I'm sorry ladies, you're still #1 in my mind.

I've got no problem with trans people, but Athletic competition is just not fair.
 
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PsihoKekec said:
And this is going to become more common. Guys who can't break the ceiling in the men's sports, but have pathological need for self affirmation, will take this route. And ''moral authorities'' will cheer them.
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I have some doubts on that. Oh, it's certain that woke publications will cheer on trans athletes no matter what, but no credible authority cares what they do or say (if the IOC refused to back down after all the human rights protests over hosting the olympics in China, I don't think they'll back down when Vox starts screeching at them). And your characterization of trans athletes (while likely accurate in this one specific case) seems a bit unfair and negative.

I'd also note that, despite what looks like a pattern, the science on this is still very unexplored. Certainly some people at some stage of transition have an unfair advantage at some sports. But the precise line of where those advantages are is not known.
 
Battlegrinder said:
I'd also note that, despite what looks like a pattern, the science on this is still very unexplored. Certainly some people at some stage of transition have an unfair advantage at some sports. But the precise line of where those advantages are is not known.
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The precise line of where it is is pretty well known. It's in the Y Chromosome. The number of advantages men have physically over women is just ridiculous, from height to muscle mass and muscle building to bone density to your very skin which is structured differently than womens and confers advantage.
 
FriedCFour said:
The precise line of where it is is pretty well known. It's in the Y Chromosome. The number of advantages men have physically over women is just ridiculous, from height to muscle mass and muscle building to bone density to your very skin which is structured differently than womens and confers advantage.
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No, it’s not. There are fertile XY females who have given birth to XY female daughters, though it is extremely rare, and many more who are infertile. It’s in what the Y chromosome does when properly expressing—in this case, the equivalent of twenty years of performance enhancing drug doses evolutionary calibrated to the maximum possible effectiveness.

This can probably be undone but it requires years, and years, of hormone replacement therapy, surgery, and ideally stopping training in sport for the entire period and a regimen of weight gain followed by weight loss back down to healthy weight.

My preference is to enact a requirement for ten years of HRT being at least 5 years post-operative before competing in women’s sports. That should get it about right. Now, that will make most transsexual women too old to participate in sports... And that’s fine, that’s the price you pay.

There are some sports like shooting and fencing and horseback riding/dressage sports where women can be highly competitive against men (the strength advantage with a sword in traditional fencing doesn’t come into play because you’re not trying to physically hammer an opponent but just touch them, so female fencers have competed against men at a very high level). Those should be exempted and it a transsexual woman wants to be in sport she can choose one of those.
 
It...may be worth noting for the sake of discussion/criticism that McKinnon specifically called-out the second-place winner as unsportsmanlike for not, like the third-place winner, displaying a trans-inclusionary sticker and giving her a hug on the trophy-stand. Which...Hell with it, I'll go ahead and call it 'entitled'. Nobody's obligated to display something or be a bundle of hugs at an award-show.

Speaking anecdotally and with some scientific backing (see below--though more is always positive because previously I've run into the fact this actually isn't very well-studied), inclusion of transwomen in female sports isn't fair to their competitors because of lingering advantage from years of masculine biological development which transitional methods cannot wholly counteract. Though the degree and influence of that advantage is likely shifting and can be ignored in some cases. That means some means of limiting trans participation should be pursued. A distinct third category is floated, but I dunnow how seriously since that makes for a lot of costs and problems and would probably never happen realistically so seems...rather empty as a proposal.

Also related, there's been a small amount of further research on this that comes to the conclusion the IOC guidelines* on including transwomen with <10 nm/l of testosterone in womens' sports are an 'intolerable unfairness'.
Haven't read past the abstract though because I haven't been energetic enough to pop off an email or go through the roundabout process of logging-in via university yet, so...
Transwomen in elite sport: scientific and ethical considerations | Journal of Medical Ethics
*Dunnow if it's directly related to cycling because I dunnow if they even use the IOC guidelines. They're just the most famous/widespread ones.
 
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prinCZess said:
It...may be worth noting for the sake of discussion/criticism that McKinnon specifically called-out the second-place winner as unsportsmanlike for not, like the third-place winner, displaying a trans-inclusionary sticker and giving her a hug on the trophy-stand. Which...Hell with it, I'll go ahead and call it 'entitled'. Nobody's obligated to display something or be a bundle of hugs at an award-show.
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Yeah. There's a reason that I said while kekec's general characterization of trans athletes seemed off, in this case he was right. McKinnon is the wrong person to be leading any kind of charge for trans athletes, because she's exactly the kind of asshole that people opposed to trans athletes have been predicting and warning people about.

prinCZess said:
That means some means of limiting trans participation should be pursued. A distinct third category is floated, but I dunnow how seriously since that makes for a lot of costs and problems and would probably never happen realistically so seems...rather empty as a proposal.
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I don't follow this issue all that much, but as far as I recall or fine, there's two trans weightlifters, and every other sport has between zero and 1 trans person competing in it. Making an entire trans category seems like it would be a bit hollow, since there's rarely going to be anyone even eligible, and when there is they'll just win by default. Winning 1st place just by showing up unopposed isn't the kind of thing serious (or hell, even casual) competitive athletes are interested in.
 
I’ll admit to not following the news on this to much, but I believe this is not the first time these happens? This seems like the kind of thing that will hurt women’s sport, making a career in sport will become more difficult for women, especially as I don’t think they wishes to become ornaments in others people victories.
 
Lightershoulders said:
I feel insulted by this individual on behalf of my female colleagues who actually stay physically competitive.

By what fucking right does this bitch get off calling someone unsportsmanlike when she only won because she was once, and arguably still is, a man?
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This is kinda strange and ironic, it’s like saying that women can’t compete with men in-terms of physical ability, when women are supposed to be strong and independent and just as able as any man on everything(on average)

For them to maybe really stop this, it would take women outright admitting that men and women have different physical capabilities IRL
 
Rocinante said:
www.theblaze.com

Transgender female dominates at Masters Track Cycling World Championships, complains how unfair it would be if she were excluded | Blaze Media

Did she have a leg up on the competition?
www.theblaze.com www.theblaze.com

Jesus look at her size compared to those biological women!
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I have a dear Transgender f(r)iend. Like many Transgender people, she is big for a woman, but she has been living as a woman for over decade. Before her transition, her daughters secretly called her mom. Anyway, she's the person I would want beside me in a bar fight.

The sports industry needs to figure this stuff out. I know that going through transition bleeds off one's muscle mass and strength. My f(r)iend has lost a lot of strength. She can no longer do a lot of stuff she used to do. But I still want her with me in the bar fight.
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
This is kinda strange and ironic, it’s like saying that women can’t compete with men in-terms of physical ability, when women are supposed to be strong and independent and just as able as any man on everything(on average)

For them to maybe really stop this, it would take women outright admitting that men and women have different physical capabilities IRL
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There are acknowledged differences, just look at the Marines CFT/PFT and Ht/Wt/Body Fat standards*.

On the other hand, for all practical purposes a woman who trains in the gym enough CAN practically do what most men can already do. Including in combat. It just takes far more time and dedication towards maintaining that level of strength that comes easier to men. But Sports have very little to do with practicality and more to do with limits. Limits biological males will typically do better in than biological females.

*The Marines acknowledge that a Trans individual needs to be tested using their Biological gender in all standards. No biological male being tested under female standards as per MARADMIN 220/19, no matter what gender they claim to have.

Sports need to get with reality.
 
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