Various Trek infantry/ground combat formations vs. Signs Aliens.

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
We shall start with a ship's complement of redshirts and pin them against an equal number of sings aliens, then increase the count of Signs aliens until they reach 4x the redshirts.

Then, we shall move on to MACOs, DS9 federation army/marines, TNG era ship's security, Jem'Hadar, Borg Drones and Klingons out on a bender.

Fight. 😂
😏 :devilish:
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
Depends a little on where this takes place, be it a flat plain or ship interior, but assuming the Redshirts get phasers they can likely handle this by themselves. Captain Tracey in "Omega Glory" killed hundreds of Yang's with just his phaser and reserve packs. Assuming a couple dozen Redshirts and even a tiny bit of coordination it's going to be a massacure.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Depends a little on where this takes place, be it a flat plain or ship interior, but assuming the Redshirts get phasers they can likely handle this by themselves. Captain Tracey in "Omega Glory" killed hundreds of Yang's with just his phaser and reserve packs. Assuming a couple dozen Redshirts and even a tiny bit of coordination it's going to be a massacure.
Rural America, like in the movie.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
Original Sixth's Stark Trek infantry could solo trillions of Signs Aliens while blind folded and limbless.
Much like how I solo'd your mom last night.

We shall start with a ship's complement of redshirts and pin them against an equal number of sings aliens, then increase the count of Signs aliens until they reach 4x the redshirts.

Then, we shall move on to MACOs, DS9 federation army/marines, TNG era ship's security, Jem'Hadar, Borg Drones and Klingons out on a bender.

Fight. 😂
😏 :devilish:

U mad bro?

Seeing as Signs aliens don't seem to be armed...or wear clothes...I'm not sure why you'd consider this a challenge for anyone. Hell, pretty sure spitting in their faces would melt it off. Not unless those glasses of water was actually filled with some sort of high-grade moonshine, in which case, it dissolving their skin seems more plausible.

Depends a little on where this takes place, be it a flat plain or ship interior, but assuming the Redshirts get phasers they can likely handle this by themselves. Captain Tracey in "Omega Glory" killed hundreds of Yang's with just his phaser and reserve packs. Assuming a couple dozen Redshirts and even a tiny bit of coordination it's going to be a massacure.

Seeing as how a full-on phaser fight between Kirk and the Gorn in Arena went, we could probably expect that the redshirts would significantly outrange and outgun them.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Star Trek ground forces can engage enemy forces at a range of a kilometer or more based on tricorder readings alone. Assume they can fire a phaser once a second and Signs Aliens cover five meters s second that means the Starfleet Ending can fire 200 times before melee.

Now Phasers barely ever miss. It is known and they can fire off axis but we'll be generous and assume a 50% accuracy rate beyond 100 meters. And Phasers are always lethal unless plot induced stupidity determines otherwise. So that's ninety dead Aliens.

At sub 100 meters the Phaser will be on wide beam. This will wipe out an entire cones worth of enemies to the point it'll require the aliens to climb over the bodies of the dead, halving their speed let's say. Each wide beam will have to be drowned out by bodies so we'll be minimalist and say five aliens killed per wide beam blast and forty wide beam blasts used.

So another two hundred aliens killed.

Now we reach melee. I know what your thinking, melee? Signs Aliens can take a beating from a professional level baseball player with a baseball bat. STFU for a moment and realize this...

Your average Klingon is a warrior trained from birth and three times as strong as a Vulcan whose three times as strong as a healthy Human Male. So a Klingon is as strong as nine Humans. Butt a Bajoran (who may or may not of been suffering from the effects of pregnancy) defeated three armed Klingons in hand to hand combat. Now Bajorans, don't let the fight choreography fool you, are highly skilled martial artists. And Starfleet Ensigns have access to encyclopedic level of knowledge from holodeck training and Ensigns given combat roles naturally would pursue as much training as possible.

So halving the effectiveness of an Ensign to a Bajoran Officer seems reasonable. So instead of being equal to twenty seven Humans, nine Vulcans or three Klingons they're only equal to 1.5 Klingons

But these Klingons were armed and armored so we'll double that back to three Klingons. So each Ensign is worth... Rounding down.. roughly twenty Aliens in hand to hand combat because they are strong and durable.

So that's it right? Wrong.

Over penetration is a thing. And with how densely packed these aliens would be so we will increase the total dead from phaser shots alone by 20% which is low balling it IMHO.

So... 90 + 200 + 20 x 1.2 = 372 Aliens

But we're not done yet.

Worf remember made a personal forcefield against kinetic impacts in the Old West Holodeck Simulation. A Starfleet Ensign could build one way more effective out of late 20th century rural technology and is likely far more intellectually intelligent then a Klingon.

So actually the Ensign could likely fight until he died of thirst or exposure or exhaustion, which is a matter of days.

So actually it'd be 372 deaths per five minutes rated out to three eight hours workdays.

60÷5×24×372 = 107,136 Signs Aliens killed per Ensign.

Low estimate. Generously it'd be much higher.
Original Sixth's Stark Trek infantry could solo trillions of Signs Aliens while blind folded and limbless.


Edit: It's a joke ;)

So you joke...
 
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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Much like how I solo'd your mom last night.



U mad bro?

Seeing as Signs aliens don't seem to be armed...or wear clothes...I'm not sure why you'd consider this a challenge for anyone. Hell, pretty sure spitting in their faces would melt it off. Not unless those glasses of water was actually filled with some sort of high-grade moonshine, in which case, it dissolving their skin seems more plausible.



Seeing as how a full-on phaser fight between Kirk and the Gorn in Arena went, we could probably expect that the redshirts would significantly outrange and outgun them.
Darkstar, Dis U?!?!111
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
Darkstar, Dis U?!?!111

A complement actually, though Darkstar and I differ on many points as far as Star Trek and such.

You know, you have an odd habit of avoiding the actual debate.


No doubt it's that mental fortitude that convinced you that the Russians were still winning long after they'd suffered humiliating reversal after reversal.

Or maybe you're just fucking terrified.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
A complement actually, though Darkstar and I differ on many points as far as Star Trek and such.

You know, you have an odd habit of avoiding the actual debate.


No doubt it's that mental fortitude that convinced you that the Russians were still winning long after they'd suffered humiliating reversal after reversal.

Or maybe you're just fucking terrified.
You do realize I created this thread mainly for the humor of it?

To bring together the two of the most incompetent and memed combat forces. ;)
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I think it'd be better to keep politics where it belongs rather than drag it in here.

Besides,we haven't inserted the movie Starship Troopers or, god help us, the Spengo in yet. Star Trek Redshirts are nowhere near the worst ground forces available.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I think it'd be better to keep politics where it belongs rather than drag it in here.

Besides,we haven't inserted the movie Starship Troopers or, god help us, the Spengo in yet. Star Trek Redshirts are nowhere near the worst ground forces available.
They must be in the top 5.

What is a Spengo?
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
I think it'd be better to keep politics where it belongs rather than drag it in here.

Besides,we haven't inserted the movie Starship Troopers or, god help us, the Spengo in yet. Star Trek Redshirts are nowhere near the worst ground forces available.

Trek redshirts are honestly not bad. The worst you can say about them is that they tend to go into some (many) situations under-equipped. Yet we know that despite this, they do have some level of body armor for troops, they have grenades, personal force fields, phasers, binoculars, tricorders, and such. The only thing they're really missing is helmets.

We know that they use combined arms fire, we know that they regularly train, and we know they aren't corrupt as all hell. The worst you can say is that Starfleet is 'soft'.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
They must be in the top 5.

What is a Spengo?
Nowhere near the bottom five (I won't go calling the worst in sci-fi "Top.")

I'd estimate the top five in sci-fi-ish as:

1 World War Z US Military
No, Spengo genuinely aren't the dumbest. These guys were actually so stupid they brought 5,000 rounds to attack a 10,000 zombie horde and couldn't figure out why they ran out of ammo. The Battle of Yonkers has been given many a roasting in threads that it richly deserved.

2 Spengo
See Video Below, dumb enough to lose an entire platoon one at a time to a weapon that has to be physically picked up to have any effect.

3 Signs Aliens
Already under discussion.

4 Starship Troopers (Movie)
Incredibly poor showing against enemies with minimal ranged capability, tactics almost as bad as the Spengo.

5 COBRA
Had a base casually infiltrated by an ordinary teenage girl, who flexed by stating it was so easy even GI JOEs could do it. Never mind their vehicle designs, Trubble Bubble anyone?

As for who the Spengo are?
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
The meme about Redshirts is that they tend to die in exotic ways to show things are serious. Their actual combat showing, when they aren't ambushed by the monster of the week, is actually quite solid, they have a decent hit/miss ratio, and their equipment is generally quite good.

That's the issue here... this isn't "monster of the week" and there's no Main Characters around for them to end up as cannon fodder for. Thus their memetic ability to die doesn't trigger and instead they get to fall back on their weapons and technology, which are quite good all told.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
That could probably work through even then I'd imagine more than a few lucky phaser shots would kill/disintegrate quite a few of the Signs aliens.
I imagine there'd be some hefty losses but if the Signs Aliens literally spawn within arms reach the typical redshirt is going to kill the one in front of them and can maybe get a shot off at one side before the one that spawned behind them and on the other side manage a grab.

This is presuming two Signs Aliens can win a grapple against a single redshirt. They seem to be able to break down wooden doors easily enough so I judge they're stronger than a typical human, so mostly they should be able to win with that kind of numerical advantage. Some of the redshirts might be Vulcans or some other race significantly stronger than a human, and can win in the grapple, however presuming the Signs Aliens who did face humans manage a reasonably quick kill, they can reinforce the ones getting broken by a Vulcan.

Of course, there's a very real risk that some of the redshirts might sacrifice their own lives to kill the aliens behind an ally, or just manage to down all four before reinforcements can come. If that happens any one redshirt might be bought the five or so seconds it takes to switch his phaser to area stun and then swing in a big circle. So it's not a sure thing for the Signs Aliens, but the redshirts would need a lucky break or some really quick thinking to come up with a plan in the space of a couple of seconds, while the Signs Aliens only need to grab what's in front of them.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
The meme about Redshirts is that they tend to die in exotic ways to show things are serious. Their actual combat showing, when they aren't ambushed by the monster of the week, is actually quite solid, they have a decent hit/miss ratio, and their equipment is generally quite good.

That's the issue here... this isn't "monster of the week" and there's no Main Characters around for them to end up as cannon fodder for. Thus their memetic ability to die doesn't trigger and instead they get to fall back on their weapons and technology, which are quite good all told.
I dunno. ROB makes them fight a bunch of berserk aliens for his amusement certainly sounds like a monster of the week situation.
 

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