Warbirds Thread

[ShadowArxxy]

You mean that they got lucky and basically knew where it was and had to blind fire because they didn't have a lock on it at all because the pilot flew the same spot over and over again....

Which, ironically, was exactly the same thing that got B-52s killed over Vietnam despite having comprehensive jamming support.

The North Vietnamese very quickly noticed that the "Operation Linebacker" B-52 raids were using the exact same incoming and outgoing flight lanes every time, which enabled them to concentrate their SAMs along those tracks and then blind-fire salvoes of SAMs to the bombers.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah.
Complacency kills.
Don't fly thr same route is what we learned.



People don't understand how fucking Radar works.
Let me know when your job relies upon it

 

[PsihoKekec]

How many aircraft got shot down compared to the amount of hours

And how many SAM launchers were destroyed compared to SEAD missions flown? SAMs got kills (2 manned, 30+ UAV) , SEAD did not, USAF also completely failed to seriously damage Serbian army, it was only attacks on civilian infrastructure and USA pulling some of it's demands that got Serbs back into negotiations. And this was against base export models of SA-3 and SA-6, which were badly out of date and no outside support.
Not to mention that for all the air superiority missions USAF flew, Serbian helicopters still flew normally and air force conducted hundreds of ground support missions.

 

[paulobrito]

Serbia shows that a decent defense force in a terrain that helps the defense can survive and even operate against SEAD/DEAD.
Serbia is not Iraq, and the Serbian Army is competent and used well is doctrine. Even with old hardware.

 

[Zachowon]

And how many SAM launchers were destroyed compared to SEAD missions flown? SAMs got kills (2 manned, 30+ UAV) , SEAD did not, USAF also completely failed to seriously damage Serbian army, it was only attacks on civilian infrastructure and USA pulling some of it's demands that got Serbs back into negotiations. And this was against base export models of SA-3 and SA-6, which were badly out of date and no outside support.
Not to mention that for all the air superiority missions USAF flew, Serbian helicopters still flew normally and air force conducted hundreds of ground support missions.

SEAD worked wonders.
Suppression of Enemy Air Defense

 

[PsihoKekec]

And Air Defense worked wonders in suppressing air attacks, allowing the Serb army to push KLA out of Kosovo for only light casualties.
SEAD is also supposed to suppress enemy defences by attritting them, a mission which USAF performed poorly, but fortunately they did not encounter any modern AA systems.

 

[Zachowon]

And Air Defense worked wonders in suppressing air attacks, allowing the Serb army to push KLA out of Kosovo for only light casualties.
SEAD is also supposed to suppress enemy defences by attritting them, a mission which USAF performed poorly, but fortunately they did not encounter any modern AA systems.

That isn't what SEAD is.
SEAD is supressiong through any means. Jamming, electronic warfare etc.
DEAD is destruction of enemy air defense

 

[Aaron Fox]

And how many SAM launchers were destroyed compared to SEAD missions flown? SAMs got kills (2 manned, 30+ UAV) , SEAD did not, USAF also completely failed to seriously damage Serbian army, it was only attacks on civilian infrastructure and USA pulling some of it's demands that got Serbs back into negotiations. And this was against base export models of SA-3 and SA-6, which were badly out of date and no outside support.
Not to mention that for all the air superiority missions USAF flew, Serbian helicopters still flew normally and air force conducted hundreds of ground support missions.

This.

The sad reality is that SEAD is supposed to allow you entry into the protected airspace. IAD's primary objective is to keep enemy aircraft from operating within their area with minimal losses.

NATO SEAD operations failed in the former, and Serbian IADS succeeded immensely in the latter.

It literally took terror bombing for NATO to win that conflict.

Never use Iraq as a benchmark for anything other than the extremely incompetent, for -outside of the individual- they can't fight their way out of a paper bag without someone holding their hand.

That isn't what SEAD is.
SEAD is supressiong through any means. Jamming, electronic warfare etc.
DEAD is destruction of enemy air defense

Thing is, DEAD/SEAD has a surprisingly blurred line here. Even just sending HARMs someone's way is SEAD... and we all know that NATO pretty much went through their stock of modern ARMs in that campaign, causing them to start going into Vietnam-era stock.

 

[Marduk]

This.

The sad reality is that SEAD is supposed to allow you entry into the protected airspace. IAD's primary objective is to keep enemy aircraft from operating within their area with minimal losses.

NATO SEAD operations failed in the former, and Serbian IADS succeeded immensely in the latter.

What protected airspace were NATO aircraft not allowed to enter? Can you show it on the map?

It literally took terror bombing for NATO to win that conflict.

I think you have a poor definition of that.

Never use Iraq as a benchmark for anything other than the extremely incompetent, for -outside of the individual- they can't fight their way out of a paper bag without someone holding their hand.

Thing is, DEAD/SEAD has a surprisingly blurred line here. Even just sending HARMs someone's way is SEAD... and we all know that NATO pretty much went through their stock of modern ARMs in that campaign, causing them to start going into Vietnam-era stock.

 

[Zachowon]

Uh what?
US did not run out of HARMs...
And if the Serbian had done so well how did we fly so many missions with so little deaths?

Did you also know that an A10 is responsible for being the spotter of the downed F117.
Wierd, how can an A10 fly around in such an environment and not be shot down if SEAD didn't work?

 

[Sailor.X]

Seems like a good place to put this. He had a very interesting Military Career.

 

[Sailor.X]

FA-18 Hornets. The plane that puts in the work.

 

[Sailor.X]

The Block III Super Hornet. Daddy's Home.

 

[Aaron Fox]

The Block III Super Hornet. Daddy's Home.

Only useful to reduce RCS, not give it stealth capability in its entirety. It requires a whole new airframe design for that.

 

[Sailor.X]

First Turkey made a bootleg Star Wars movie. Now it made a bootleg F-22.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

First Turkey made a bootleg Star Wars movie. Now it made a bootleg F-22.

Turkey does have a somewhat impressive domestic arms industry

 

[Husky_Khan]

Coincidentally Romania is retiring it's own 5th Generation Fighter, the MiG-21 Lancer.

Much like with everyone still operating the MiG-21, even the moderized ones, they have a very considerable accident rate and in Romanian service, have been grounded fairly often due to various safety and operational issues. Romanian received its first MiG-21's back in 1965. The LanceR's currently in service and now just retired were upgraded by Romanian and Israeli firms starting in the late 90's.

Romanian Air Force Retires Its MiG-21 LanceR Jets - The Aviationist

The MiG-21 LanceR was the longest serving fighter jet in Romanian Air Force. After 61 years of career, the iconic MiG-21 LanceR, the longest-lived fighter aircraft in the history of the Romanian Air Force, successfully completed its final flight mission at Boboc, in eastern Romania. The last...

theaviationist.com

Romania plans on acquiring over thirty Norwegian F-16 Fighters to supplement the fourteen they already have in service.

India, IIRC, has over a hundred MiG-21bis in active service still and which have been planned on being phased out for the better part of a decade. But they're still in active service. Besides them, almost every other country still operating them only operates a small number of them with the exception of Best Korea which has even more MiG-21's or its Chinese derivative, the J-7, in service then even India and China itself which has a few hundred still in operation (and Pakistan lesser numbers of the J-7 as well).

 

[Husky_Khan]

Feels like a crime there aren't more videos of Japan's ShinMaywa US-2 Amphibious Airplane doing water landings.



Just a beautiful big bird.

 

[Sailor.X]

Remember this vehicle from GIJOE.

Well the Mad Lads in the US Navy are saying hold my beer.



The Shark will be a real life vehicle in our lifetime.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Increasingly endangered airframe in Poland, the MiG-29.

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