Warbirds Thread
- Thread starter PsihoKekec
- Start date
bintananth
behind a desk
True, but the vast expanses of the relatively calm Pacific fighting the IJN in the tropics and near-tropics was not what RN carrier doctrine was optimized for.
RN carriers, and the associated doctrine, had the horrible weather of the North Atlantic, the relatively confined waters of the Mediterranean, and the North Sea (both of the aforesaid at the same time) in mind.
EDIT: The English Channel is further North than the US-Canada border and Alexandria, Egypt is further North than New Orleans, Louisiana.
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Except she wasn't unstoppable, or they would have signed the surrender on her deck instead of the Missouri's.
E was good and lucky, not invisible or unstoppable. No CV of the time could shrug off their forward elevator being blown off.
Harlock
I should have expected that really
Enty is a legend, but she was facing Japanese aircraft carrying at best 500 pound bombs. British carriers had to tank 1,000 pounders, and in some cases 2,200 pound AP bombs dropped by pilots at least equal to the Kido butai
Plus those numbers were deceptive, there is a difference between planes carried and planes operational. Many were carried in crates as replacements for right offs and losses. You can for example compare the listed strength of planes at Midway vs how many were actually launched.
She was unstoppable. They couldn't sink her, and by the time the war was over she was still getting worked on and got scraped after the war.
She was the lone Pacific Carrier for the longest time.
The reason she wasn't the one they signed the surrender on was because a BB is more intimidating
Oh I know.
And the Japanese did use plenty of Betty's with large bomb loads. They also took a large beating with multiple 500 lbs hitting them.
Both the USN and the RN has pros and cons to fight the conflicts they were in
Harlock
I should have expected that really
American carriers were tough, they did have good deck armour it was just under the planes. So they could tank respectable damage it was just they couldn't field aircraft. Hard to kill the ship but not necessarily to mission kill it.
It was good to run joint missions, the US taught the UK how to go massed strikes and the UK taught the US how to handle fighter ops more efficiently. Made both fleets superior
It was good to run joint missions, the US taught the UK how to go massed strikes and the UK taught the US how to handle fighter ops more efficiently. Made both fleets superior
bintananth
behind a desk
No.
It was because Truman from Missouri and he wanted to make a statement about his home state. If he truly wanted to intimidate the Japanese the surrender would have been signed one on of the WWI-era destroyers the US pulled out of reserve after the Point Honda disaster like it was nothing.
In 1940 the US basically gave the British 50 such destroyers in exchange for the use of a few bases.
The US: "Don't worry, we've got more just sitting around in storage".
The UK: "Thank you. Um, can we get some more?"
Harlock
I should have expected that really
joke being those destroyers were virtually worthless 
They were in poor condition and had terrible handling characteristics making them unsuitable for ASW missions. Good morale boost but by the time they had been brought up to useable specs the RN had built enough of its own frigates to do the job instead
Cambletown was probably the most useful
They were in poor condition and had terrible handling characteristics making them unsuitable for ASW missions. Good morale boost but by the time they had been brought up to useable specs the RN had built enough of its own frigates to do the job insteadCambletown was probably the most useful
bintananth
behind a desk
More ships also means more lookouts and sets of hydrophones at a time when sonar was pretty limited and "that's where it is" was mostly a guessing game if you couldn't see it.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
I'll note that Ark Royal was notable for having the highest freeboard of any carrier built due to her decently tall double hangars.It wouldn't matter, it isn't the ship or numbers that count it is the weather.
That is a 90 thousand ton supercarrier, imagine a 7 thousand ton CVE in the same conditions
Doesn't matter what planes you carry, nothing is launching in those conditions. Unless of course you are a Swordfish in which case those conditions would be classed as a bit breezy
The attack on the Bismarck was launched in weather like that with 60 foot waves breaking over the bow of the Carrier requiring pilots to time their takeoff so they didn't fly straight into the sea. They had to launch into a crosswind because a headwind would have blown the planes off the back of the ship before they could gather speed, and the difference between the landing speed and stall speed was all of six knots
No other plane was robust enough to launch in those conditions which is why they kept them around. Avengers or Barracudas replaced Swordfish on big carriers but they still had a place in the North Atlantic
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Talk about going out with a bang
bintananth
behind a desk
To get back to the thread topic:
The first monoplane fighter and the first one with interrupter gear.
Those had an 87mph top speed and about the same amount of power as a cheap late-80s/early-90s subcompact economy car.
The first monoplane fighter and the first one with interrupter gear.
Those had an 87mph top speed and about the same amount of power as a cheap late-80s/early-90s subcompact economy car.
bintananth
behind a desk
Yikes!
I see three anti-ship missiles, an open bomb bay, and an empty mount in that photo. Presumably there's one more anti-ship missile off screen under the right wing outboard of the engines and at least one has been launched.
That's at least 5 Harpoons. A Burke-class DDG carries 8.
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
GVB Stats for GDI (TibSun era) TB Mk1 (Havoc II) Tactical Bomber:
TL9 GDI TB Mk1 (Havoc II)
Crew: 2 total. 2 crew stations covering vehicle maneuvering system, 6 communicators, 5 navigation aids, 25 sensors, 3 targeting systems, 246 countermeasures.
Subassemblies: Vehicle +8, Body +8, 4xADS Turret [Body] +2, 4xSensor Turret [Body] +1, Ground Attack Sensor Turret [Body:U] +1, 2xWings [Body] +5, Wheels +6.
P&P: two 33,721 lbs. thrust GDI Super Turbofan Mk1s (afterburner, performance, Propane/LNG, Realistic; long term access).
Fuel: three 26,806 liter self-sealing ultralight Fuel Tanks (fire modifier -1), 80,419 liter LNG (fire 13), 26,806 liter self-sealing ultralight Fuel Tank (fire modifier -1) [2xWings], 26,806 liter LNG (fire 13) [2xWings].
Occ: two normal Cockpit Crew Stations (airbag, crashweb, g-seat), 2-man Tactical Bomber Enviromental Control System, two Tactical Bomber Air Tanks (7 hr. duration, rebreather) Cargo:
Armor F RL B T U
Body 6/200 6/200 5/150 4/100 4/100
ADS Turret 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 0/0
Sensor Turret 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 0/0
Ground Attack Sensor Turret (U) 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 0/0
Wings 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50
Wheels 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50 4/50
Weaponry Malf Type Damage SS Acc 1/2D m Max m RoF TL
40mm GDI ADS Mk1 - Cr 0d 14 0 0 0 1/1 9
2mm GDI EMAMS Mk1 Ver. Cr 2d+1 11 12 192 1,737 50 9
2mm AP GDI 2EMAMSAP Mk1 - Cr 2d+1(2) - 12 192 1,737 - 9
GDI ADSM Mk1 Crit Exp 18d[4d] - - 0 4,800 - 9
Equipment
Body: two Light Missile Bays (2 hardpoints rated 75 kg each); Main Ordinance Bay (14 hardpoints rated 2,000 kg each); two Secondary Ordinance Bays (4 hardpoints rated 1,000 kg each); Cockpit Escape Capsule (2 crew); two medium range GDI Medium-Range LaserComm Mk1s (2,000-mile range; sensitive, scrambler); medium range GDI Medium-Range Wide Band Radio Set Mk1 (1,000-mile range; very sensitive, VLF, scrambler, direction finder); two short range GDI Short-Range LaserComm Mk1s (200-mile range; sensitive, scrambler); short range GDI Short-Range Wide Band Radio Set Mk1 (100-mile range; very sensitive, VLF, scrambler, direction finder); mainframe EVA Computer (complexity 7; genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, sentient, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Data Analysis Co-Processor (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Electronic Warfare Co-Processor (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Encryption Co-Processor (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); five mainframe Vehicle Fire Control Co-Processors (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Main Computer (complexity 7; genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Navigation Co-Processor (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); mainframe Vehicle Sensors Co-Processor (complexity 7; dedicated, genius, hardened, very high capacity, neural net, supercompact); 2,000-gig Computer Harddrive (hardened); six 1,000-gig Database Harddrives (hardened); 1,500-gig EVA Harddrive (hardened); Computer Navigation Program (C2); +7 Damage Control Assistance Program (C7); two Data Recovery Programs (C2); Electronic Warfare Database; Encrpytion Database; full EVA Personality Program (C5); four GDI ADS Gunnery Programs-29 (C21); GDI Data Encryption Program (C14); five GDI DataWarrior Mk1s (C1); two GDI RWS Gunnery Programs-29 (C21); +22 Main Gun Fire Control Program (C21); Navigation Database; Recon Data Storage; Routine Vehicle Piloting Program (piloting-17, C7); +22 RWS Fire Control Program (C21); Sensors Database; Warbook Database; 40 chaff Chaff Dispensers; 40 chaff Chaff Dispensers; 40 chaff Chaff Dispensers; 80 chaff Chaff Reloads; 80 chaff Chaff Reloads; 80 chaff Chaff Reloads; 40 flare Flare Dispensers; 40 flare Flare Dispensers; 40 flare Flare Dispensers; 80 flare Flare Reloads; 80 flare Flare Reloads; 80 flare Flare Reloads; two IR Jammers (1.5-mile range, jammer rating 4); four advanced Sensor Detection Systems; two military GPSs; two IFFs; Inertial Navigation System; Search AESA (F, scan 25, 200-mile range; non-targeting, LPI); Search LIDAR (F, scan 25, 200-mile range; no targeting, multimode, LPI); Targeting AESA (F, scan 23, 100-mile range; LPI); Targeting LIDAR (F, scan 23, 100-mile range; multimode, LPI); Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) (scan 21, 50-mile range); Multiscanner (scan 23, 100-mile range); Search PESA (T, scan 25, 200-mile range); Adaptive Camouflage (-2 spotting modifier); modest Emission Stealth (-2 spotting modifier); modest IR Stealth (-2 spotting modifier); Mimetic Camouflage (-6 spotting modifier); NBCT Sealing; NBCT-Grade Self-Sealing Hull; modest Sensor Stealth (-2 spotting modifier); Waterproofing; Psi Shielding (8 psi strength); Radiation Shielding (1,000 PF); Spall Liner. ADS Turret: 5,000 rounds 2mm AP GDI 2EMAMSAP Mk1; 200 40mm GDI ADSM Mk1s (modest HEPF warhead; stealthy, self destruct, Skill-100 IIRH); ADS Universal Mount (concealed); ADSM/EMAMS Link; EMAMS Full Stabilizer; two 40mm slow autoloader GDI ADS Mk1s (F, concealed); 2mm 3-barrel GDI EMAMS Mk1 (F, extremely short barrel; concealed, very fine (accurate)). Sensor Turret: Search AESA (T, scan 19, 25-mile range; non-targeting, LPI); Search LIDAR (F, scan 19, 25-mile range; multimode, LPI); two Medium-Range LLTVs (F, magnification x25); two Search Thermographs (F, scan 21, 50-mile range); two Short-Range LLTVs (F, magnification x5); Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) (scan 21, 50-mile range); Multiscanner (scan 21, 50-mile range); ranging Sound Ranging System (sound level 18); surveillance Sound Surveillance System (sound level 18); Search PESA (T, scan 21, 50-mile range). Ground Attack Sensor Turret (U): Search AESA (T, scan 19, 25-mile range; non-targeting, LPI); Search LIDAR (F, scan 19, 25-mile range; multimode, LPI); two Medium-Range LLTVs (F, magnification x25); two Search Thermographs (F, scan 21, 50-mile range); two Short-Range LLTVs (F, magnification x5); Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) (scan 21, 50-mile range); Multiscanner (scan 21, 50-mile range); ranging Sound Ranging System (sound level 18); surveillance Sound Surveillance System (sound level 18); Search PESA (T, scan 21, 50-mile range); Bombsight HUDWAC (near miss indicator); Bombsight; Laser Designator Tracker; two Laser Designators (100-mile range). Wings: two 4,400 kg Heavy Ordinance Hardpoints; 1,100 kg Light Ordinance Hardpoint; 3,300 kg Medium Ordinance Hardpoint.
Statistics
Size: [LxWxH] 22 m x18 m x5 m Payload: 135,116 kg Lwt.: 193,059 kg
Volume: 1,980 m^3 Maint.: 0.132 hours (726 mh/day) Price: $22,880,010,710
HT: 12 HP: 60,000 [Body], 600 each [4xADS Turret], 360 each [4xSensor Turret], 360 [Ground Attack Sensor Turret (U)], 9,600 each [2xWings], 750 each [6xWheels].
Wheel Ground Performance: Speed Factor 18, Top Speed 282 kph, gAccel 12.9 kph/s, gDecel 32.2 kph/s, gMR 0.5, gSR 4, Ground Pressure 7,094 lbs./sf, Off Road Speed 48.3 kph.
Back-swept Aerial Performance: Stall Speed 88.5 kph, Drag 521, Top Speed 2,036 (1,585 w/o afterburner) kph, aAccel 27.4 kph/s, aMR 20.5, aSR 5, aDecel 129 kph/s.
Mid-swept Aerial Performance: Stall Speed 64.4 kph, Drag 521, Top Speed 1,360 (1,054 w/o afterburner) kph, aAccel 27.4 kph/s, aMR 21, aSR 5, aDecel 137 kph/s.
Out-swept Aerial Performance: Stall Speed 48.3 kph, Drag 521, Top Speed 1,022 (797 w/o afterburner) kph, aAccel 27.4 kph/s, aMR 21.5, aSR 5, aDecel 137 kph/s.
Design Notes:
TL10 responsive extra heavy frame advanced materials [Body].
TL10 responsive light frame advanced materials [Wheels].
TL10 DR 50 advanced laminate [4xADS Turret].
TL10 DR 50 advanced laminate [4xSensor Turret].
TL10 DR 50 advanced laminate [Ground Attack Sensor Turret].
TL10 DR 50 advanced laminate [2xWings].
TL10 DR 100 advanced laminate [Body].
TL10 DR 50 skirt advanced laminate [Wheels].
Operating Duration: 1 H 45 M (7 H w/o afterburner)
Payload Cost: $12,019,048
Vehicle Features: computerized controls, excellent streamlining.
Body: lifting body, 60° Front Slope, 30° Rear Slope, 60° Left Slope, 60° Right Slope.
Wings: high agility, auto-variable.
Wheels: quantity 6, non-standard sizex3, retract into body, improved suspension, improved brakes, smart, puncture resistant.
ADS Turret: retractable, full rotation.
Sensor Turret: retractable, full rotation.
Ground Attack Sensor Turret: retractable, full rotation.
Volume: 1,639 m^3 [Body], 1.3 m^3 [4xADS Turret], 0.743 m^3 [4xSensor Turret], 0.772 m^3 [Ground Attack Sensor Turret (U)], 43.3 m^3 [2xWings], 246 m^3 [Wheels].
Area: 929 m^2 [Body], 9.29 m^2 [4xADS Turret], 5.57 m^2 [4xSensor Turret], 5.57 m^2 [Ground Attack Sensor Turret (U)], 149 m^2 [2xWings], 279 m^2 [Wheels].
Empty Space: 21.2 m^3 [Body], 13.3 m^3 [2xWings].
Wheel Ground Performance:;
Back-swept Aerial Performance: external item drag 0, payload 297,880, sweep back-swept, unclamp top speed, use VXii stall speed;
Mid-swept Aerial Performance: external item drag 0, payload 297,880, sweep mid-swept, unclamp top speed, use VXii stall speed;
Out-swept Aerial Performance: external item drag 0, payload 297,880, sweep out-swept, unclamp top speed, use VXii stall speed;With modern tech, I'm surprised no one's tried to replicate an Orca; a couple of the engines they use on the F-35s could probably do the trick and already have the VTOL capability.
It would be a worthy compliment to the Warthog and Apache.
It would be a worthy compliment to the Warthog and Apache.
bintananth
behind a desk
That came from a game and isn't physically possible.
For one thing: propane is not liquid at room temperature and less dense than kerosene is even when it's liquid.
That's just the first "this is a pipe dream" thing I noticed.