Warbirds Thread

[Zachowon]

Let's just say, what US Aircraft can do fully is classified

 

[Marduk]

Michigan air show: MiG-23 jet crashes moments after two occupants eject

The Soviet-era jet hit unoccupied vehicles in a parking lot, narrowly missing one apartment building.

www.bbc.com

Privately Owned MiG-23 Crashes During Airshow In Michigan - The Aviationist

The MiG-23 was taking part in "Thunder over Michigan" airshow at Willow Run Airport. Two pilots ejected from a privately owned two-seat MiG-23UB Flogger, registration N23UB/1038107, taking part in the Thunder Over Michigan airshow at Willow Run Airport, in Ypsilanti, Michigan, at 16.15LT on...

theaviationist.com

 

[ShadowArxxy]

That's the same MiG-23 that lost a piece of its canopy mid-flight a few weeks ago at Oshkosh, which leads me to be concerned about how well-maintained it was. Especially given that the MiG-23 is historically established as having been an exceptionally maintenance-heavy aircraft.

 

[Agent23]

Although it should be added that the Foxbat did accomplish its primary mission. Their existance helped to deter SR-71 flights in a number of occasions, which were both a constant political headache and a legitimate problem to Russia's strategic security by giving the West too clear of a picture of their capabilities, and its threat helped to take the wind off the sails of future hypersonic bomber projects (even if the prodigious costs and technical hurdles did their part as well).

In that sense the plane in its original form was a success, and the failure to develop it into a more rounded and cost-effective plane was a different issue.

Or maybe the SR-71 died because of these little things called satellites...

You know, stuff that is not in anyone's airspace and does not need a pilot to operate, and can transmit surveillance date for years and years.

 

[Zachowon]

Clouds can often beat satellite

 

[paulobrito]

Clouds can often beat satellite

And on top of that, orbits are well known and do not change, so is relatively easy to program activity to not be seen by said satellites.

 

[Zachowon]

That isn't as easy for many other reasons

 

[PsihoKekec]

Orbits can be changed, every surveillance satellite has thrusters with limited amount of fuel for orbit correction, however getting permission usual means multi-department bureaucratic slog. I heard from the guy who used to be in the intelligence that the fastest they ever got permission was eleven days, but usually it took about a month to get permission or refusal.

The biggest advantage of satellites was that they could cover areas that SR-71 could not (it only flew border areas of USSR and China) and can do day by day surveillance while that was more difficult to do with SR-71 as the service rate was falling due to age.

 

[paulobrito]

Also, in the days of SR-71, you don't have the kind of high-speed / high-bandwidth data links you see today.
The plane needs to RTB and the data is later processed. Take a lot of time, and against high mobile targets is useless. By the time the data is processed, the target is already moved to another place.

Today? drones like Triton and Global Hawk do what can be done in real-time from outside the danger zone. Inside said danger zone, is the job of the satellites. If they can at that specific time.
The proposed follow for the SR-71 is the SR-72 - hypersonic UAV. If goes to enter service, but take your time - the prototype is planned to have a first flight in 2025.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, we have a constellation of satellites.
We also have satellite in orbit and 9mes that stay still.
All depends on the layer.

I don't know much else but we arnt as old school woth sats as we used to be

 

[Marduk]

Yeah, if anything killed recon planes, it is drones, which are effectively remote or script controlled recon planes, which helps their mission endurance, cost, and... loss risk tolerance.

 

[Zachowon]

Drones help a lot

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I feel it's important to point out here that, "Manned aerial reconnaissance is obsolete thanks to advances in both satellites and unmanned systems." is the exact same line the Air Force used when retiring the U-2.

 

[Zachowon]

It isn't retired though

 

[ShadowArxxy]

It isn't retired though

Retired from the sort of strategic reconaissance missions it had been doing until high altitude SAMs made it too vulnerable. That line was the official reason given for not developing a replacement aircraft for the U-2 in that role . . .

 

[Zachowon]

It is still used today though.

 

[paulobrito]

It is still used today though.

Yeah, in the same role the Global Hawk and Triton.

 

[Agent23]

Clouds can often beat satellite

Ever heard of synthetic aparture radar?

That thing can see submarines 50 meters under water, probably more since I am going off of an essay from the 80s.

 

[Zachowon]

Ever heard of synthetic aparture radar?

That thing can see submarines 50 meters under water, probably more since I am going off of an essay from the 80s.

Yes I have, and they still have limits.

I know full well the majority if what the US collection platforms can do.

 

[Agent23]

Yes I have, and they still have limits.

I know full well the majority if what the US collection platforms can do.

Yeah, ok, sure.

I am kinda skeptical that some clouds can stop something that can penetrate dozens of meters of water, even dirt.