What if, Henry VIII has the children he wanted?

johnreiter

Well-known member
What if all six children (three boys and three girls) born to Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon live to adulthood?

Catherine (born 1510)
Henry (born 1511)
Edward (born 1513)
Thomas (born 1514)
Mary (born 1516)
Elizabeth (born 1518)

How would this affect history, and who would they probably end up marrying?

Also, Henry will still probably outlive Catherine of Aragon, so who would he end up remarrying to in this timeline?
 
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Henry stays a Catholic. This probably eliminates Reformation in Scotland too.

Nevertheless Henry IX could take the Scandinavian Path to Reformation, making England Lutheran.

Henry VIII does not remarry but turns up debauchery to eleven.
 
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What if all six children (three boys and 3 girls) born to Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon live to adulthood?

Catherine (born 1510)
Henry (born 1511)
Edward (born 1513)
Thomas (born 1514)
Mary (born 1516)
Elizabeth (born 1518)

How would this affect history, and who would they probably end up marrying?

Also, Henry will still probably outlive Catherine of Aragon, so who would he end up remarrying to in this timeline?
Dude was a psycho bipolar nutjob.
 
This probably eliminates Reformation in Scotland too.
Most of you thoughts I agree with completely. I'm not sure about this one. Why would the Scottish Reformation not happen? I wasn't aware that it was dependent on the English Reformation

If England remains Catholic, I suspect Thomas More will have a longer and more successful career in Henry's court.
 
Why would the Scottish Reformation not happen? I wasn't aware that it was dependent on the English Reformation
Henry - 8th or 9th (if neither Goes Prot) - could invade Scotland and uphold Catholicism, helping MQoS.
Even if not so extreme - simply not having a Protestant neighbour could slow down/weaken Reformation in Da Norff.
 
Henry - 8th or 9th (if neither Goes Prot) - could invade Scotland and uphold Catholicism, helping MQoS.
Even if not so extreme - simply not having a Protestant neighbour could slow down/weaken Reformation in Da Norff.
Would this butterfly the American Revolution still or not ?
 
Would this butterfly the American Revolution still or not ?
Much too early a divergence to say, IMO. Too many butterfly effects to go under the bridge. One thing that might happen, is that a catholic England might feel bound to respect Spain's hegemony over the Americas, granted by the Pope. OTOH, if Spain remains friendly to England (with England remaining Catholic, and maybe a marriage alliance with the Hapsburg), a future Spanish monarch might cede some of La Florida (which is what they called all of America north of Mexico) to England, since Spain had no interest in colonizing it for themselves.
 
Much too early a divergence to say, IMO. Too many butterfly effects to go under the bridge. One thing that might happen, is that a catholic England might feel bound to respect Spain's hegemony over the Americas, granted by the Pope. OTOH, if Spain remains friendly to England (with England remaining Catholic, and maybe a marriage alliance with the Hapsburg), a future Spanish monarch might cede some of La Florida (which is what they called all of America north of Mexico) to England, since Spain had no interest in colonizing it for themselves.
Betcha some segments of FL wished they were still part of Spain LOL.
 
Betcha some segments of FL wished they were still part of Spain LOL.
Very true. The novel Times Without Number did a good job of depicting what a Spanish hegemony of the Americas might look like. They would probably allow most of La Florida to be ruled by catholic Native American states, as long as they were vassals of the King of Spain.
 
Very true. The novel Times Without Number did a good job of depicting what a Spanish hegemony of the Americas might look like. They would probably allow most of La Florida to be ruled by catholic Native American states, as long as they were vassals of the King of Spain.
Gotta love the Spanish Royal Family BABY.
 
Henry stays a Catholic. This probably eliminates Reformation in Scotland too.

Nevertheless Henry IX could take the Scandinavian Path to Reformation, making England Lutheran.

Henry VIII does not remarry but turns up debauchery to eleven.
Maybe keep Norwey catholic,too - there was catholic uprising against Denmark there,with England help it could worked.
 
Here are some of my thoughts on who Henry's daughters may marry. IOTL, Henry considered French, Hapsburg, and Scottish marriages for Princess Mary. With three daughters, ITTL he will be able to achieve all three.

Princess Catherine will probably be married off to the French royal family. Henry considered three possible matches, to King Francis I, to Francis' eldest son, Francis, Dauphin of France, or to his second son Henri, Duke of Orleans. Between the three, I think Henry would want to marry Princess Catherine to one of the 2 princes, so that his grandchildren might end up on the throne of France. Even if Catherine marries Prince Fancis, he will probably die within 2 years of the marriage due to his poor health. Ultimately, she will probably end up married to his brother Henri (the future King Henri II of France) which will make her Queen of France instead of Catherine de' Medici

Princess Mary (OTL Mary I of England) will most likely be married off to Emperor Charles V (this may or may not work out in this timeline, but certainly Henry would be more supportive of the match).

Princess Elizabeth would most likely be married off to King James V of Scotland

If these three marriages happen, the butterfly affects would be HUGE. There would be totally different lines of succession in France, Scotland, and the Hapsburg Empire. Among others, OTL Philip II and Mary Queen of Scots would be butterflied out of existence. The late 16th century would be a very different looking place.
 
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Henry Fitzroy may not be born ITTL, if children bring Henry closer to his wife. That being the case, maybe Prince Thomas would be made King of Ireland? Henry considered spinning Ireland off as a separate kingdom at one point, and giving it to his bastard son IOTL. ITTL, it seems to me he would be even more willing to give it to his youngest boy, who will likely never get a crown of his own
 
OTOH, if Spain remains friendly to England (with England remaining Catholic, and maybe a marriage alliance with the Hapsburg), a future Spanish monarch might cede some of La Florida (which is what they called all of America north of Mexico) to England, since Spain had no interest in colonizing it for themselves.

In case of a lasting Anglo-Spanish alliance (cemented by marriage ties), it's almost a given that Spain will not only allow, but encourage and support English colonisation on the East Coast of North America. This would be vital primarily to ensure that any French foothold there is suitably limited.

Furthermore, the Anglo-spanish compact will probably entail than any Caribbean and South American possessions that England takes from the French and Portuguese (and maybe the Dutch, if that becomes relevant) will remain in English hands. England and Spain will presumably engage in rather free trade with each other, and they'll have reasonable access to each other's colonies.

This may therefore lead to an English Brazil (not necessarily covering all of OTL Brazil), and different English colonies in the Caribbean.

In North America, it seems to me that the initial divide will be that Florida and everything West of the Appalachians will be Spanish, but that England is free to settle the Eastern coast and anything North of the Mississippi watershed. Considering the limitations of Spanish demographics and the sheer amount of land they'd have under their aegis, I suspect that in the long term, the Mississippi basin will be settled by the English (provided they can beat the French, which I consider very plausible).

As you mentioned in post #9, it's quite credible that the Spanish would treat Florida as a vassal realm, primarly inhabited by natives. In the event, I think this would then be organised into a separate (though firmly Spanish-aligned) kingdom, whereas the Mississippi basin (and probably a slice of OTL Texas) would join the English colonial empire. The greater share of Texas, as well as everything West of the Rockies, would remain Spanish.



...We can imagine all sorts of fanciful spin-off effects, such as the English involvement in Brazil eating up a lot of attention, which might then allow the French (locked out of the New World) to in turn beat the English to India (and perhaps to Australia). Similarly, a Portuguese Indonesia might be an interesting prospect to entertain.
 

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