What if, the Arabian Nights are history instead of fiction?

johnreiter

Well-known member
Partially inspired by this awesome post by QuantumBranching over on Deviantart
https://www.deviantart.com/quantumbranching/art/Arthurian-Romance-vs-Arabian-Nights-736657777
to give credit where credit is due. Much of the physics of the world are the same, but I have take a more "purest" approach, and created a world where the stories all take place EXACTLY as written (so, for example, the Abbasid Caliphate does still fall)

The current year is 750 AH (1350, if you are a Christian) and the son of Shah Ryar and Scheherazade rules the Persian Empire from his capital of Shiraz. The Empire covers not only OTL Persia, but all of Central Asia and Greater India. ITTL, the Umayyads conquered India in the 8th century, and now, 600 years later, it is well-integrated into the Muslim world. The current dynasty of Persia is descended from King Badr Basim who founded an alternate version of the Khwarazmian Empire. This empire, unlike OTL, was smart enough not to offend Genghis Khan, and so the Mongols did not invade the Middle East ITTL. Baghdad was still conquered, but by Shia Persian Muslims, who drove the Caliph into exile, but did not burn the House of Wisdom. Indeed, it remains one of the greatest centers of learning in the Muslim world. Southern Iraq is ruled by the Sultan of Baghdad, who is a vassal of the Shah.

Persia's closest ally (with whom they have recently formed a marriage alliance) is the Empire of China, currently under the dynasty of Ala ad-Din. China is TTL's equivalent of the Mughal Empire, with a Muslim elite ruling over a mostly non-Muslim population. Over one hundred years ago, the founder of the dynasty, a Chinese Muslim thief named Ala ad-Din, discovered an old brass lamp with a powerful Jinn imprisoned within, forced to serve the lamp's owner. With the Jinn he became rich and powerful, so much so that he was invited to marry one of the daughters of Emperor Lizong of Song. However, Ala ad-Din was ambitious. When Lizong died, he claimed that because he was the Emperor's son-in-law, and Lizong had no sons, he should become the next emperor, and he backed up his claim with the power of the lamp. Most of the Confuscian elite objected, and tired to overthrow him. The Jinn killed them all. Ala ad-Din replaced them with Chinese Muslims like himself. This new elite is totally loyal to the Emperor, since they know they depend on him for their survival. The Court culture is Islam, and it is now steadily trickling down, but to the discomfort of many Chinese people.

However, there have been a number of positive effects of this. Most of the well-educated Muslims in China were merchants, not bureaucrats, and when they came into power they immediately lifted the unfair imperial monopolies and restrictions of merchants, giving more power to the rising merchant towns. They also began streamlining the top-heavy and burdensome bureaucracy in order to make it more efficient. All this has led to a new age of progress and innovation in China, and the rise of a true merchant middle-class. Ala ad-Din proved to be a great emperor, a visible improvement over the decadent Lizong. One of his first acts was to use the Jinn to wipe out the Mongols and bring him Kublai Khan in chains. He then re-conquered North China without the loss of more than a handful of soldiers, which made the army happy, and even the Confucian conservatives rejoice. He then used the Jinn to rebuild the Great Wall overnight, and then to construct numerous over fortifications against future invasion, as well as roads and other public works. He did all this without sending out conscription orders or raising taxes (in fact, after telling the Jinn to fill the treasury with gold and silver, Ala ad-Din massively lowered the taxes), which made him VERY popular with the peasants, despite his strange foreign religion. The existence of the lamp is a secret passed down from one emperor to the next. The official story is that China is ruled by a dynasty of mighty sorcerers.

There are a number of small sultanates and emirates in the Middle East, which act as a buffer between the Persian and Egyptian spheres. Egypt has done a bit better ITTL. The spirit of rationalism that flourished under the Abbasids never completely died out, and al-Ghazali never reached the levels of popularity he held IOTL. Saladin, after establishing the Ayyubid Sultanate, constructed a new Library of Alexandria in Egypt to act as a rival to the (then Turkish-controlled) House of Wisdom in Baghdad, and it remains to this day. The Mamluke Dynasty is still in power, but with some changes. Baibars reigned twice as long, and had different children. So far, the first three sultans of Egypt have been much wiser and nobler rulers than the OTL Mamlukes. The Sultanate is slightly smaller than IOTL, having lost some northern territory, as will be mentioned later.

The strongest ally of Egypt is Morocco, which still controls the rest of North Africa, as well as Iberia (Charlemagne liberated Iberia from the Muslims, but the Christian kingdom of Spain only lasted 300 years before being re-conquered by the Muslims in the mid 11th century). Morocco has not been ruled by a sultan for nearly 150 years, however. Instead, it is a Magiarchy, where an elite class of magicians rules. The most powerful of all the magicians governs Morocco as first-among-equals. When the archmage dies, any magicians who want to claim the throne must pass a series of dangerous trials to prove they are as strong as the previous archmage (the current archmage can destroy an entire army with lighting thrown from his hand, or obliterate a city with a bolt of fire from the sky, and has a magic planisphere which lets him see anything on Earth). Morocco is a close friend of Egypt, and the daughter of the current archmage is married to the sultan. The Moroccans have already discovered the new world, when magicians walked across the Atlantic in search of the tomb of Solomon. However, although this means the maps of the world are much more accurate, no ships have yet been invented that can reach the new world, so exploration is limited to a handful of venturesome magicians.

The Byzantine Empire has not done as well as IOTL. First, they lost the Persian wars decisively and were even conquered by Persia for a time. This butterflied away the conquests of Justinian the Great. Eventually, they did get free, only to be conquered again in the 1050s by the Arab Empire of King Omar bin al-Nu'uman, who placed one of his sons on the throne as Emperor of Byzantium. After the fall of the Arab Empire, Constantinople was captured by the Seljurk Turks, leaving the Empire with nothing but Greece. However, it's an ill wind that blows no good. When the Crusades happened ITTL, Byzantium was spared the sack of Constantinople by the Venetians, since they didn't own it at the time. In the late 14th century, under a particularly brilliant general, Byzantium rebounded. They re-conquered Constantinople, as well as all of Asia Minor, and kicked the Mamlukes out of Syria, annexing the surviving Crusader kingdoms. The conquest of the Turks by the Byzantines has butterflied away the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Osman and his sons all died on Greek swords

Because the conquests of Justinian never happened, the Ostrogothic Kingdom and the Vandal Kingdom lasted longer. The Vandals were eventually conquered by the Umayyads, and Charlemagne conquered the Ostrogoths, taking all of Italy into his empire.
 
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johnreiter

Well-known member
Here I have made a chronology to go with this world, showing the stories I was able to place at specific times in history.

Contemporary with Moses (1200 BC)
The Prophet and the Justice of Providence

King David rules Israel, and Solomon is a child (980 BC)
Story of David and Solomon

Contemporary with King Solomon the Wise (circa 950 BC)
Story of Prince Sayf al-Muluk and the Princess Badi'a al-Jamal

Shortly after the death of Solomon (930 BC)
The Story of Janshah

One generation after the death of Solomon (circa 920 BC)
The Adventures of Bulukiya

25 years after The Adventures of Bulukiya (895 BC)
The Queen of Serpents

The Prophet Daniel is 12 years old (611 BC)
The Devout Woman and the Two Wicked Elders

Contemporary with Cyrus the Great, but set in China (500 BC)
The Craft and Malice of Woman, or the Tale of the King, His Son, His Concubine and the Seven Viziers

Contemporary with Alexander the Great (circa 300 BC)
Iskandar Zu al-Karnayn and a Certain Tribe of Poor Folk

Contemporary with Al-Nu'man ibn al-Mundhir (582 –  602)
Al-Mutalammis and His Wife Umaymah
Al-Nu'uman and the Arab of the Banu Tay
Adî ibn Zayd and the Princess Hind

Contemporary with Khosrow II (590 – 628)
Khusrau and Shirin and the Fisherman
The Two Sisters Who Envied Their Cadette

Contemporary with Abdullah bin Ma'amar al Kaysi, and after the death of Mohammed (632 – 634)
Hatim of the Tribe of Tayy
Otbah and Rayya

Contemporary with Caliph Omar bin al-Khattab (634 – 644)
The Caliph Omar bin al-Khattab and the Young Badawi
The Moslem Champion and the Christian Damsel

Contemporary with Caliph Mu'awiyah I (661 – 680)
The Badawî and His Wife
The City of Many-Columned Iram and Abdullah Son of Abi Kilabah
Abu al-Aswad and His Slave-girl

Contemporary with Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (685 – 705)
Al-Hajjaj and the Pious Man
Al-Hajjaj and the Three Young Men
Alî and Zâhir from Damascus
The City of Brass
Hind bint al-Nu'mân and al-Hajjaj
The History of Al-Hajjaj Bin Yusuf and the Young Sayyid
Mus'ab bin al-Zubayr and Ayishah Daughter of Talhah
Ni'ma and Nu'm
The Pilgrim Man and the Old Woman
The Two Dancers

Contemporary with Caliph Sulayman ibn Abd al-Malik (715-717)
Khuzaymaibn Bishr and 'Ikrima al-Fayyâd

Contemporary with Caliph Omar Bin Abd al-Aziz (717 – 720)
The Caliph Omar Bin Abd al-Aziz and the Poets

Contemporary with Sidi Ibrahim bin Al-Khawwas (718 – 782)
The Christian King's Daughter and the Moslem

Contemporary with Caliph Hisham ibn Abd al-Malik (723 – 743)
Hishâm and the Arab Youth
Tale of the Lover Who Feigned Himself a Thief

Contemporary with Caliph Al-Walid II (743 – 744)
Yunus the Scribe and the Caliph Walid Bin Sahl

During the career of Ma'n ibn Zâ'ida (746-770)
Tale of Ma'n ibn Zâ'ida
It is Impossible to Arouse Ma'n's Anger
Ma'n ibn Zâ'ida and the Badawî

748 (date specifically given)
The Pius Black Slave

Contemporary with Caliph al-Mahdi (775 – 785)
Ma'n obtains Pardon for a Rebel:
Ishaq of Mosul and His Mistress and the Devil
Muhammad al-Amin and the slave-girl

780 (five years before Tale of the Fisherman and the Jinni)
Tale of the Ensorcelled Prince

785 (date specifically given from the death of Solomon)
Tale of the Fisherman and the Jinni

Contemporary with Caliph al-Hadi (785 – 786)
The Tale of the Slave of Destiny

Contemporary with Caliph Harun al-Rashid (786 – 809)
Abdallah ibn Fadil and His Brothers
Abu al-Husn and His Slave-Girl Tawaddud
Abu Mohammed hight Lazybones
Abu Nowas With the Three Boys and the Caliph Harun al-Rashid
Ala al-Din Abu al-Shamat
Al-Asma'î and the Girls of Basra
Ali Nur al-Din and Miriam the Girdle-Girl
Ali the Persian
Ali Khwajah and the Merchant of Baghdad
Al-Rashid and the Barmecides
Generous Dealing of Yahya bin Khalid The Barmecide with Mansur
Generous Dealing of Yahya Son of Khalid with a Man Who Forged a Letter in his Name
Harun Al-Rashid and Abu Hasan, The Merchant of Oman
Harun al-Rashid and the Arab Girl
Harun al-Rashid and the Damsel and Abu Nowas
Harun al-Rashid and the Slave-Girl and the Iman Abu Yusuf
Harun al-Rashid and the Three Poets
Harun al-Rashid and the Two Slave-Girls
Harun al-Rashid and the Woman of the Barmecides
History of Khwajah Hasan al-Habbal
History of Sidi Nu'uman
History of the Kazi Who Bare a Babe
Ibn al-Sammak and al-Rashid
Ibrahim and Jamilah
Ibrahim of Mosul and the Devil
Ishaq of Mosul and the Lost Melody
Ja'afar Bin Yahya and Abd al-Malik bin Salih the Abbaside
Ja'afar the Barmecide and the Bean-Seller
Ja'afar the Barmecide and the Old Badawi
Khalifah The Fisherman Of Baghdad
Masrur the Eunuch and Ibn al-Karibi
Night Adventure of Harun al-Rashid and the Youth Manjab
Nur al-Din Ali and the Damsel Anis Al-Jalis
Nur al-Din Ali of Damascus and the Damsel Sitt al-Milah
Tale of Ali bin Bakkar and Shams al-Nahar
Tale of Ghanim bin Ayyub, The Distraught, The Thrall o' Love
Tale of Harun al-Rashid and Abdullah bin Nafi'
Tale of the Damsel Torfat al-Kulub and the Caliph Harun al-Rashid
Tale of the First Eunuch Bukhyat
Tale of the Portress
Tale of the Second Eunuch Kafur
The Adventures of Mercury Ali of Cairo
The Caliph Harun al-Rashid and Queen Zubaydah in the Bath
The Caliph Harun al-Rashid and the Three Slave-Girls
The Caliph's Night Adventure
The Devotee Prince
The Eldest Lady's Tale
The Fifth Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The First Kalandar's Tale
The First Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The Fourth Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The History of Al-Bundukani or, the Caliph Harun Al-Rashid and the Daughter of King Kisra
The Kazi Abu Yusuf With Harun al-Rashid and Queen Zubaydah
The Lovers of al-Madina
The Lovers of Bassorah
The Lovers of the Banu Uzrah
The Loves of Jubayr bin Umayr and the Lady Budur
The Mock Caliph
The Pistachio Oil Cream and the Legal Point
The Porter and the Three Ladies of Baghdad
The Rogueries of Dalilah the Crafty and Her Daughter Zaynab the Coney-Catcher
The Second Kalandar's Tale
The Second Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The Seventh Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The Sixth Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
The Sleeper and the Waker
The Sons of Yahya bin Khalid and Sa'id bin Salim al-Bahili
The Story of the Blind Man, Baba Abdullah
The Tale of Attaf
The Tale of the Three Apples
The Third Kalandar's Tale
The Third Voyage of Sindbad the Seaman
Yahya bin Khalid the Barmecide and the Poor Man

Contemporary with Caliph al-Amin (809 – 813)
Al-Amin ibn al-Rashid and His Uncle Ibrahim ibn al-Mahdi

Contemporary with Caliph al-Ma'mun (813 – 833)
Abu Hassan al-Ziyadî and the Khorasan Man
Al-Ma'mun and Zubayda
Di'ibil al-Khuza'i With the Lady and Muslim bin al-Walid
Ibrâhîm ibn al-Mahdî and the Barber-surgeon
Ibrâhîm ibn al-Mahdî and the Merchant's Sister
Ishaq of Mosul and the Merchant
The Arab Girl at the Fountain
The Caliph Al-Ma'mun and the Pyramids of Egypt
The Caliph Al-Ma'mun and the Strange Scholar
The Concubine of Al-Maamun
The Emir Ali bin Tahir and the Girl Muunis
The Loves of Abu Isa and Kurrat al-Ayn
The Loves of Al-Hayfa' and Yusuf
The Man of Al-Yaman and His Six Slave-Girls
The Story of Al-Ma'mun and the Kilabite Girl
The Story of Al-Ma'mun and the Parasite
The Story of Ishaq and the Roses
The Story of the Kiss
The Tale of Isaac of Mosul

Contemporary with Caliph al-Mutawakkil (847 – 861)
Al-Fath ibn Khâqân and the Caliph al-Mutawakkil
Al-Mutawakkil and His Concubine Mahbûba
The Mad Lover (takes place in the last year of his reign)

Contemporary with Abu Bakr Mohammed ibn Al-Anbari (885–940)
The Prior Who Became a Moslem

Contemporary with Caliph al-Mu'tadid (892 – 902)
Abu Al-Hasan of Khorasan
The Woman Who had a Boy and the Other Who had a Man to Lover
The Tale of the warlock and the Young Cook of Baghdad

Contemporary with Al-'Utbi (977- 982)
The Three Unfortunate Lovers

A generation after Avicenna (circa 1050)
The Tale of King Omar bin al-Nu'uman and His Sons Sharrkan and Zau al-Makan, and What Befel Them of Things Seld-Seen and Peregrine
Tale of Kamar al-Zaman
Tale of Azíz and Azízah
Tale of Tàj al-Mulúk and the Princess Dunyà: The Lover and the Loved
Tale of the Hashish Eater
Tale of Hammad the Badawi

1166 (date specifically given)
The Man's Dispute With the Learned Woman Concerning the Relative Excellence of Male and Female

Contemporary with Saladin (1174 – 1193)
Al-Malik al-Nasir and the Three Chiefs of Police
Al-Malik Al-Nasir and His Wazir

Shortly after the death of Saladin (circa 1194)
The Man of Upper Egypt and His Frankish Wife

Four generations before the Story of King Shahryar and His Brother (circa 1200)
Julnar the Sea-Born and Her Son King Badr Basim of Persia

Contemporary with Caliph Al-Mustansir I (1226 – 1242)
Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves
Nazarene Broker's Tale
Prince Ahmad and the Fairy Peri-Banu
Tale of Aladdin and his Wonderous Lamp
The Barber of Baghdad
The Barber's Tale of his Fifth Brother
The Barber's Tale of his First Brother
The Barber's Tale of his Fourth Brother
The Barber's Tale of his Second Brother
The Barber's Tale of his Sixth Brother
The Barber's Tale of his Third Brother
The Hunchback's Tale
The Reeve's Tale
The Tale of the Jewish Doctor
The Tale of the Tailor

Contemporary with Baibars (1260 – 1277)
The Adventure of the Sultan Baybars
Al-Malik al-Zahir Rukn al-Din Baybars al-Bunduqdari and the Sixteen Captains of Police

Contemporary with Caliph Hakim I (1262 – 1302)
Wardan the Butcher; His Adventure With the Lady and the Bear
The Caliph Al-Hâkim and the Merchant
Tale of King Ins bin Kays and His Daughter with the Son of King Al-'Abbas
Ali the Cairene and the Haunted House in Baghdad

About one generation after Baibars (circa 1300)
Judar and His Brethren

Present day
The Ferryman of the Nile and the Hermit
Story of King Shahryar and His Brother
 
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49ersfootball

Well-known member
Partially inspired by this awesome post by QuantumBranching over on Deviantart
https://www.deviantart.com/quantumbranching/art/Arthurian-Romance-vs-Arabian-Nights-736657777
to give credit where credit is due. Much of the physics of the world are the same, but I have take a more "purest" approach, and created a world where the stories all take place EXACTLY as written (so, for example, the Abbasid Caliphate does still fall)

The current year is 750 AH (1350, if you are a Christian) and the son of Shah Ryar and Scheherazade rules the Persian Empire from his capital of Shiraz. The Empire covers not only OTL Persia, but all of Central Asia and Greater India. ITTL, the Umayyads conquered India in the 8th century, and now, 600 years later, it is well-integrated into the Muslim world. The current dynasty of Persia is descended from King Badr Basim and his wife Julnar the Sea-Born, who founded an alternate version of the Khwarazmian Empire. This empire, unlike OTL, was smart enough not to offend Genghis Khan, and so the Mongols did not invade the Middle East ITTL. Baghdad was still conquered, but by Shia Persian Muslims, who drove the Caliph into exile, but did not burn the House of Wisdom. Indeed, it remains one of the greatest centers of learning in the Muslim world. Southern Iraq is ruled by the Sultan of Baghdad, who is a vassal of the Shah.

Persia's closest ally (with whom they have recently formed a marriage alliance) is the Empire of China, currently under the dynasty of Ala ad-Din. China is TTL's equivalent of the Mughal Empire, with a Muslim elite ruling over a mostly non-Muslim population. Over one hundred years ago, the founder of the dynasty, a Chinese Muslim thief named Ala ad-Din, discovered an old brass lamp with a powerful Jinn imprisoned within, forced to serve the lamp's owner. With the Jinn he became rich and powerful, so much so that he was invited to marry one of the daughters of Emperor Lizong of Song. However, Ala ad-Din was ambitious. When Lizong died, he claimed that because he was the Emperor's son-in-law, and Lizong had no sons, he should become the next emperor, and he backed up his claim with the power of the lamp. Most of the Confuscian elite objected, and tired to overthrow him. The Jinn killed them all. Ala ad-Din replaced them with Chinese Muslims like himself. This new elite is totally loyal to the Emperor, since they know they depend on him for their survival. The Court culture is Islam, and it is now steadily trickling down, but to the discomfort of many Chinese people.

However, there have been a number of positive effects of this. Most of the well-educated Muslims in China were merchants, not bureaucrats, and when they came into power they immediately lifted the unfair imperial monopolies and restrictions of merchants, giving more power to the rising merchant towns. They also began streamlining the top-heavy and burdensome bureaucracy in order to make it more efficient. All this has led to a new age of progress and innovation in China, and the rise of a true merchant middle-class. Ala ad-Din proved to be a great emperor, a visible improvement over the decadent Lizong. One of his first acts was to use the Jinn to wipe out the Mongols and bring him Kublai Khan in chains. He then re-conquered North China without the loss of more than a handful of soldiers, which made the army happy, and even the Confucian conservatives rejoice. He then used the Jinn to rebuild the Great Wall overnight, and then to construct numerous over fortifications against future invasion, as well as roads and other public works. He did all this without sending out conscription orders or raising taxes (in fact, after telling the Jinn to fill the treasury with gold and silver, Ala ad-Din massively lowered the taxes), which made him VERY popular with the peasants, despite his strange foreign religion. The existence of the lamp is a secret passed down from one emperor to the next. The official story is that China is ruled by a dynasty of mighty sorcerers.

There are a number of small sultanates and emirates in the Middle East, which act as a buffer between the Persian and Egyptian spheres. Egypt has done a bit better ITTL. The spirit of rationalism that flourished under the Abbasids never completely died out, and al-Ghazali never reached the levels of popularity he held IOTL. Saladin, after establishing the Ayyubid Sultanate, constructed a new Library of Alexandria in Egypt to act as a rival to the (then Turkish-controlled) House of Wisdom in Baghdad, and it remains to this day. The Mamluke Dynasty is still in power, but with some changes. Baibars reigned twice as long, and had different children. So far, the first three sultans of Egypt have been much wiser and nobler rulers than the OTL Mamlukes. The Sultanate is slightly smaller than IOTL, having lost some northern territory, as will be mentioned later.

The strongest ally of Egypt is Morocco, which still controls the rest of North Africa, as well as Iberia (Charlemagne liberated Iberia from the Muslims, but the Christian kingdom of Spain only lasted 300 years before being re-conquered by the Muslims in the mid 11th century). Morocco has not been ruled by a sultan for nearly 150 years, however. Instead, it is a Magiarchy, where an elite class of magicians rules. The most powerful of all the magicians governs Morocco as first-among-equals. When the archmage dies, any magicians who want to claim the throne must pass a series of dangerous trials to prove they are as strong as the previous archmage (the current archmage can destroy an entire army with lighting thrown from his hand, or obliterate a city with a bolt of fire from the sky, and has a magic planisphere which lets him see anything on Earth). Morocco is a close friend of Egypt, and the daughter of the current archmage is married to the sultan. The Moroccans have already discovered the new world, when magicians walked across the Atlantic in search of the tomb of Solomon. However, although this means the maps of the world are much more accurate, no ships have yet been invented that can reach the new world, so exploration is limited to a handful of venturesome magicians.

The Byzantine Empire has not done as well as IOTL. First, they lost the Persian wars decisively and were even conquered by Persia for a time. This butterflied away the conquests of Justinian the Great. Eventually, they did get free, only to be conquered again in the 1050s by the Arab Empire of King Omar bin al-Nu'uman, who placed one of his sons on the throne as Emperor of Byzantium. After the fall of the Arab Empire, Constantinople was captured by the Seljurk Turks, leaving the Empire with nothing but Greece. However, it's an ill wind that blows no good. When the Crusades happened ITTL, Byzantium was spared the sack of Constantinople by the Venetians, since they didn't own it at the time. In the late 14th century, under a particularly brilliant general, Byzantium rebounded. They re-conquered Constantinople, as well as all of Asia Minor, and kicked the Mamlukes out of Syria, annexing the surviving Crusader kingdoms. The conquest of the Turks by the Byzantines has butterflied away the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Osman and his sons all died on Greek swords

Because the conquests of Justinian never happened, the Ostrogothic Kingdom and the Vandal Kingdom lasted longer. The Vandals were eventually conquered by the Umayyads, and Charlemagne conquered the Ostrogoths, taking all of Italy into his empire.
Did somebody say Sci-Fi ?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Partially inspired by this awesome post by QuantumBranching over on Deviantart
https://www.deviantart.com/quantumbranching/art/Arthurian-Romance-vs-Arabian-Nights-736657777
to give credit where credit is due. Much of the physics of the world are the same, but I have take a more "purest" approach, and created a world where the stories all take place EXACTLY as written (so, for example, the Abbasid Caliphate does still fall)

The current year is 750 AH (1350, if you are a Christian) and the son of Shah Ryar and Scheherazade rules the Persian Empire from his capital of Shiraz. The Empire covers not only OTL Persia, but all of Central Asia and Greater India. ITTL, the Umayyads conquered India in the 8th century, and now, 600 years later, it is well-integrated into the Muslim world. The current dynasty of Persia is descended from King Badr Basim and his wife Julnar the Sea-Born, who founded an alternate version of the Khwarazmian Empire. This empire, unlike OTL, was smart enough not to offend Genghis Khan, and so the Mongols did not invade the Middle East ITTL. Baghdad was still conquered, but by Shia Persian Muslims, who drove the Caliph into exile, but did not burn the House of Wisdom. Indeed, it remains one of the greatest centers of learning in the Muslim world. Southern Iraq is ruled by the Sultan of Baghdad, who is a vassal of the Shah.

Persia's closest ally (with whom they have recently formed a marriage alliance) is the Empire of China, currently under the dynasty of Ala ad-Din. China is TTL's equivalent of the Mughal Empire, with a Muslim elite ruling over a mostly non-Muslim population. Over one hundred years ago, the founder of the dynasty, a Chinese Muslim thief named Ala ad-Din, discovered an old brass lamp with a powerful Jinn imprisoned within, forced to serve the lamp's owner. With the Jinn he became rich and powerful, so much so that he was invited to marry one of the daughters of Emperor Lizong of Song. However, Ala ad-Din was ambitious. When Lizong died, he claimed that because he was the Emperor's son-in-law, and Lizong had no sons, he should become the next emperor, and he backed up his claim with the power of the lamp. Most of the Confuscian elite objected, and tired to overthrow him. The Jinn killed them all. Ala ad-Din replaced them with Chinese Muslims like himself. This new elite is totally loyal to the Emperor, since they know they depend on him for their survival. The Court culture is Islam, and it is now steadily trickling down, but to the discomfort of many Chinese people.

However, there have been a number of positive effects of this. Most of the well-educated Muslims in China were merchants, not bureaucrats, and when they came into power they immediately lifted the unfair imperial monopolies and restrictions of merchants, giving more power to the rising merchant towns. They also began streamlining the top-heavy and burdensome bureaucracy in order to make it more efficient. All this has led to a new age of progress and innovation in China, and the rise of a true merchant middle-class. Ala ad-Din proved to be a great emperor, a visible improvement over the decadent Lizong. One of his first acts was to use the Jinn to wipe out the Mongols and bring him Kublai Khan in chains. He then re-conquered North China without the loss of more than a handful of soldiers, which made the army happy, and even the Confucian conservatives rejoice. He then used the Jinn to rebuild the Great Wall overnight, and then to construct numerous over fortifications against future invasion, as well as roads and other public works. He did all this without sending out conscription orders or raising taxes (in fact, after telling the Jinn to fill the treasury with gold and silver, Ala ad-Din massively lowered the taxes), which made him VERY popular with the peasants, despite his strange foreign religion. The existence of the lamp is a secret passed down from one emperor to the next. The official story is that China is ruled by a dynasty of mighty sorcerers.

There are a number of small sultanates and emirates in the Middle East, which act as a buffer between the Persian and Egyptian spheres. Egypt has done a bit better ITTL. The spirit of rationalism that flourished under the Abbasids never completely died out, and al-Ghazali never reached the levels of popularity he held IOTL. Saladin, after establishing the Ayyubid Sultanate, constructed a new Library of Alexandria in Egypt to act as a rival to the (then Turkish-controlled) House of Wisdom in Baghdad, and it remains to this day. The Mamluke Dynasty is still in power, but with some changes. Baibars reigned twice as long, and had different children. So far, the first three sultans of Egypt have been much wiser and nobler rulers than the OTL Mamlukes. The Sultanate is slightly smaller than IOTL, having lost some northern territory, as will be mentioned later.

The strongest ally of Egypt is Morocco, which still controls the rest of North Africa, as well as Iberia (Charlemagne liberated Iberia from the Muslims, but the Christian kingdom of Spain only lasted 300 years before being re-conquered by the Muslims in the mid 11th century). Morocco has not been ruled by a sultan for nearly 150 years, however. Instead, it is a Magiarchy, where an elite class of magicians rules. The most powerful of all the magicians governs Morocco as first-among-equals. When the archmage dies, any magicians who want to claim the throne must pass a series of dangerous trials to prove they are as strong as the previous archmage (the current archmage can destroy an entire army with lighting thrown from his hand, or obliterate a city with a bolt of fire from the sky, and has a magic planisphere which lets him see anything on Earth). Morocco is a close friend of Egypt, and the daughter of the current archmage is married to the sultan. The Moroccans have already discovered the new world, when magicians walked across the Atlantic in search of the tomb of Solomon. However, although this means the maps of the world are much more accurate, no ships have yet been invented that can reach the new world, so exploration is limited to a handful of venturesome magicians.

The Byzantine Empire has not done as well as IOTL. First, they lost the Persian wars decisively and were even conquered by Persia for a time. This butterflied away the conquests of Justinian the Great. Eventually, they did get free, only to be conquered again in the 1050s by the Arab Empire of King Omar bin al-Nu'uman, who placed one of his sons on the throne as Emperor of Byzantium. After the fall of the Arab Empire, Constantinople was captured by the Seljurk Turks, leaving the Empire with nothing but Greece. However, it's an ill wind that blows no good. When the Crusades happened ITTL, Byzantium was spared the sack of Constantinople by the Venetians, since they didn't own it at the time. In the late 14th century, under a particularly brilliant general, Byzantium rebounded. They re-conquered Constantinople, as well as all of Asia Minor, and kicked the Mamlukes out of Syria, annexing the surviving Crusader kingdoms. The conquest of the Turks by the Byzantines has butterflied away the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Osman and his sons all died on Greek swords

Because the conquests of Justinian never happened, the Ostrogothic Kingdom and the Vandal Kingdom lasted longer. The Vandals were eventually conquered by the Umayyads, and Charlemagne conquered the Ostrogoths, taking all of Italy into his empire.
Interesting.
What with Korea,Japan,Ethiopia and Europe here? ERE and HRE could not rule everything here.

Since there was no mongols,Russia is still normal state/or rather few states/ ,not monstrosity like Moscov.
There are still Cumans and Hungarian nomads there,too.

And,we should have Central Europe states./Hungary,Lithuania,Poland,Czech/ maybe Obodrites state would survive here,too.

What about Scandinavia,England and Ireland ?

Speaking about mages - are there any christian mages here? if not,why muslims do not take over yet?
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
This is a very interesting premise, and your take on the world has many fascinating aspects. In the interest of discussion, I hope you don't mind if I offer some notes and points of critique (mainly from the perspective of plausibility and causality).


The current dynasty of Persia is descended from King Badr Basim and his wife Julnar the Sea-Born

Maybe there are multiple versions, but i thought Julnar married Shahriman, and Badr Basim was their son.


Persia's closest ally (with whom they have recently formed a marriage alliance) is the Empire of China, currently under the dynasty of Ala ad-Din. China is TTL's equivalent of the Mughal Empire, with a Muslim elite ruling over a mostly non-Muslim population. Over one hundred years ago, the founder of the dynasty, a Chinese Muslim thief named Ala ad-Din, discovered an old brass lamp with a powerful Jinn imprisoned within, forced to serve the lamp's owner. With the Jinn he became rich and powerful, so much so that he was invited to marry one of the daughters of Emperor Lizong of Song. However, Ala ad-Din was ambitious. When Lizong died, he claimed that because he was the Emperor's son-in-law, and Lizong had no sons, he should become the next emperor, and he backed up his claim with the power of the lamp. Most of the Confuscian elite objected, and tired to overthrow him. The Jinn killed them all. Ala ad-Din replaced them with Chinese Muslims like himself. This new elite is totally loyal to the Emperor, since they know they depend on him for their survival. The Court culture is Islam, and it is now steadily trickling down, but to the discomfort of many Chinese people.

This is really quite a strange and implausible take, particularly in the context of anything resembling actual history. The whole setting of the Aladdin story has been debated, as you surely know-- and generally speaking, it's recognised that "China" was just used as shorthand for "exotic locale".

There were obiously Muslim regions in the West of the (nominal) Chinese sphere, so keeping things both plausible and reasobly literalist would suggest that the solution is to put the story in the (Islamicised and Turkic) Western reaches of China. That is: Uyghuristan, more or less.

The names are obiously Arabic in the tale (which makes zero sense), bt as we know, we get them in further "Westernised" form-- so that can be explained in just the last step in a long line of adaptations. Aladdin would actually be Alettin (the Turkic form) for instance. Badroulbadour (derived from Arabic Badru l-Budur, meaning "Full Moon of Full Moons") would actually have a Turkic name as well. ("Full moon" would be rendered Tolunay in East Turkic, I think. I'm not sure about the grammar of the language, though, so the "of Full Moons" bit is rather more tricky to translate.)

Things of that nature, anyway.

It takes away the "cool, mercantile China". But you can easily have Alettin's realm expand to become a great Central Asian Sultanate that likewise becomes the beating heart of all trade along the Silk Road.


One of his first acts was to use the Jinn to wipe out the Mongols and bring him Kublai Khan in chains. He then re-conquered North China without the loss of more than a handful of soldiers, which made the army happy, and even the Confucian conservatives rejoice. He then used the Jinn to rebuild the Great Wall overnight, and then to construct numerous over fortifications against future invasion, as well as roads and other public works. He did all this without sending out conscription orders or raising taxes (in fact, after telling the Jinn to fill the treasury with gold and silver, Ala ad-Din massively lowered the taxes), which made him VERY popular with the peasants, despite his strange foreign religion.

This seems massively OP, and although some feats to remove the Mongols from Central Asia might be envisioned-- if he has this power, it begs the question: why doesn't he just conquer the world?

Of course, maybe it's because of the economic ruination he will cause through his utter stupidity. By vasly multiplying the amounts of available gold and silver, he causes unprecedented inflation and crashes the economy in short order!

The man clearly needs some better advisors. He has great powers, but he's still an regular guy with -- clearly -- no experience when it comes to determining sound policy.


There are a number of small sultanates and emirates in the Middle East, which act as a buffer between the Persian and Egyptian spheres. Egypt has done a bit better ITTL.

These would have precious little space. There's barely any room between the greater empires in the region, as described.


Charlemagne liberated Iberia from the Muslims, but the Christian kingdom of Spain only lasted 300 years before being re-conquered by the Muslims in the mid 11th century

This really beggars belief. In OTL, the Muslims arrived just when the Visigoths were fighting a civil war between pretenders to the throne, whereas their realm had otherwise been fairly stable. The chances of this randomly happening when ATL Muslims invade later are very small. More plausibly, they meet a unified, Catholic Iberia that is allied to Francia and the Ostrogothic Kingdom. Simply annexing Iberia would be a no-go, since this would be at the extremity of the Muslim supply lines.


Morocco has not been ruled by a sultan for nearly 150 years, however. Instead, it is a Magiarchy, where an elite class of magicians rules.

Very nice. Fits with the way the evil sorcerer who recruits Aladdin in the story is explicitly said to hail from the Maghreb. (And later teleports the whole cast there for a bit, I think?)


The Byzantine Empire has not done as well as IOTL. First, they lost the Persian wars decisively and were even conquered by Persia for a time. This butterflied away the conquests of Justinian the Great. Eventually, they did get free, only to be conquered again in the 1050s by the Arab Empire of King Omar bin al-Nu'uman, who placed one of his sons on the throne as Emperor of Byzantium. After the fall of the Arab Empire, Constantinople was captured by the Seljurk Turks, leaving the Empire with nothing but Greece.

Again, quite implausible. Why would this (essentially) Muslim-wank imply that the Persianes beat the Eastern Roman Empire... before Islam even exists? That doesn't track. You could argue that Zoroastrian fire magic (or whatever) makes it all harder for Constantinople, and justify nixing Justinian's OTL Western conquests on those grounds. But having Persia outright conquer the Eastern Roman Empire is not believable.

(Also, Muslim success mainly relied on the two empires have tired each other out in a series of long wars. If Persia wins early, the Muslims probably get crushed early on by a well-prepared and powerful Persia.)

Since the Byzantines rise again anyway, you might as well have them survive (in truncated form) right from the start.

Besides, the ATL history of Persia, and Aladdin/Alettin doing empire-building in Central Asia, pretty much nixes the presence of the Turks in Anatolia to begin with...


Because the conquests of Justinian never happened, the Ostrogothic Kingdom and the Vandal Kingdom lasted longer. The Vandals were eventually conquered by the Umayyads, and Charlemagne conquered the Ostrogoths, taking all of Italy into his empire.

Vandals getting conquered is plausible. They were so rabidly anti-catholic that no other Christian power would help them.

Charlemagne conquering the Ostrogoths is implausible again, however. If Justinian doesn't come West, then the Ostrogoths aren't thrown into total turmoil, and their realm consolidates again. The West is pretty much divided into three realms: Francia (meaning France, the low countries, and parts of Germany), Visigothic Iberia, and Ostrogothic Italia. These share their Catholic faith, so they can stand united against external threats.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
if he has this power, it begs the question: why doesn't he just conquer the world?
How many wishes has it been?
  1. Defeat Mongols.
  2. Fix Great Wall.
  3. Fill treasury with treasure.
If each generation of the monarchy only gets three wishes, this’ll be a limiting factor. Especially if the genie’s the kind that goes out of its way to screw over the wisher.
  1. Everyone is terrified of the Mongol-defeating Chinese sorcery and planning defenses or preemptive strikes. Better hope they don’t find out about the wish shortage…
  2. Not enough human soldiers to man the fortifications.
  3. Mega inflation.
 

johnreiter

Well-known member
What with Korea,Japan,Ethiopia and Europe here? ERE and HRE could not rule everything here.
little of no mention of these regions in any version of the Arabian nights. I assume that, away from the Mediterranean, the borders of Europe are similar, or changed only by butterfly affects
Since there was no mongols,Russia is still normal state/or rather few states/ ,not monstrosity like Moscov.
The Mongols existed, they just never conquered Central Asia. It's possible they did not conquer Russia. It's also possible there is not Russia for them to conquer in this world, since some stories claim that the lands north of the Caucus Mountains are ruled by the Jinn
What about Scandinavia,England and Ireland ?
Again, not mentioned in any stories I could find, probably because they were too far away for Muslim writers to consider them
Speaking about mages - are there any christian mages here? if not,why muslims do not take over yet?
Magic exists everywhere, but follows the rules described in the Nights.

Most magic, with a few obvious exceptions, isn't that powerful against a force of soldiers, unless you set a trap. As for why Morrocco hasn't conquered the world, the problem is logistics. The Archmage could, if he wanted to, reduce Europe t a wasteland, but he doesn't have the manpower or administrative bureaucracy to conquer and rule it.
Maybe there are multiple versions, but i thought Julnar married Shahriman, and Badr Basim was their son.
You are completely right. I was going too fast. I have fixed this
This seems massively OP, and although some feats to remove the Mongols from Central Asia might be envisioned-- if he has this power, it begs the question: why doesn't he just conquer the world?
Same basic problem as with Morocco. Aladdin can destroy any enemy, but he doesn't have the logistics to rule the world, and
The man clearly needs some better advisors. He has great powers, but he's still an regular guy with -- clearly -- no experience when it comes to determining sound policy.
I'm so glad this came through. Yes, Aladdin is a peasant and a thief. He will blunder a lot in his early years as Emperor
How many wishes has it been?
  1. Defeat Mongols.
  2. Fix Great Wall.
  3. Fill treasury with treasure.
If each generation of the monarchy only gets three wishes, this’ll be a limiting factor. Especially if the genie’s the kind that goes out of its way to screw over the wisher.
There is no 3 wishes limit in the original story
  1. Everyone is terrified of the Mongol-defeating Chinese sorcery and planning defenses or preemptive strikes. Better hope they don’t find out about the wish shortage…
  2. Not enough human soldiers to man the fortifications.
  3. Mega inflation.
A good description of the problems this new dynasty will face

Of course, this timeline is totally implausible, since it is adapted from medieval Muslim fairy tales. The divergences are the result of massive anachronisms, and a general disinterest in the details of history on the part of the writers. I have done my best to render these details as historic as possible
 
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ATP

Well-known member
little of no mention of these regions in any version of the Arabian nights. I assume that, away from the Mediterranean, the borders of Europe are similar, or changed only by butterfly affects

The Mongols existed, they just never conquered Central Asia. It's possible they did not conquer Russia. It's also possible there is not Russia for them to conquer in this world, since some stories claim that the lands north of the Caucus Mountains are ruled by the Jinn

Again, not mentioned in any stories I could find, probably because they were too far away for Muslim writers to consider them

Magic exists everywhere, but follows the rules described in the Nights.

Most magic, with a few obvious exceptions, isn't that powerful against a force of soldiers, unless you set a trap. As for why Morrocco hasn't conquered the world, the problem is logistics. The Archmage could, if he wanted to, reduce Europe t a wasteland, but he doesn't have the manpower or administrative bureaucracy to conquer and rule it.

You are completely right. I was going too fast. I have fixed this

Same basic problem as with Morocco. Aladdin can destroy any enemy, but he doesn't have the logistics to rule the world, and

I'm so glad this came through. Yes, Aladdin is a peasant and a thief. He will blunder a lot in his early years as Emperor

There is no 3 wishes limit in the original story

A good description of the problems this new dynasty will face

Of course, this timeline is totally implausible, since it is adapted from medieval Muslim fairy tales. The divergences are the result of massive anachronisms, and a general disinterest in the details of history on the part of the writers. I have done my best to render these details as historic as possible
Thanks!
if i remember correctly,one of stories is about lake with human turned into fishes,and their King fused with throne by evil sorcerer - some arab with jinn help saved him.

Country supposed to be somwhere on russian steppes.With King servants being muslim,christian,jews and zoroastrian.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
There is no 3 wishes limit in the original story

A good description of the problems this new dynasty will face
Maybe have the lamp found in some kind of ancient booby-trapped fortress, sealed from the inside with warnings in as many languages as possible telling treasure hunters to turn back, it isn't worth it, danger, not a place of honor, don't trust the genie it destroyed our whole civilization and so forth and so on. Make it as clear as possible than this is one of those genies and Caliph Aladdin has to spend weeks working out legalese for every wish, after which the genie inevitably laughs maniacally claiming how he missed something and he'll only find out at the worst possible/funniest moment.
 

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