Warhammer 40K What if the Emperor just skipped the Primarchs and made the Legions in the first place?

[Tyzuris]

So basically assume that the Emperor doesn't create the Primarchs and instead just focuses on creating the Space Marines instead. So under the command hierarchy the legion masters will be the most senior Astartes in a single legion.

With no Primarchs to corrupt, how much further will Chaos' attempts at Emperor's plans be hampered?

 

[PsihoKekec]

Are the TTL Space Marines as capable as OTL Space Marines? Since they don't get the primarch geneseed.
I guess legions would have to be structured differently with more emphasis on HQ work as they don't have superior transcendent minds of the primarchs at hand to smooth over everything, with more conventional legion structure, with OTL missing command levels (platoon, battalion) being implemented. With no Warmaster as unifying commander of the war effort after Emps goes off to build the webway, the Great Crusade would be most likely controlled equivalent of High Command, with multiple local commanders.
With no single, demi-god, point of failure per legion Chaos will have much harder time corrupting them, as the highest echelons of the legions will be the well indoctrinated Terran legionnaires. There will probably be considerable tension between ambitious new inductees and the old guard, giving the Chaos an infection vector, but nothing as successful as Erebus. Thus any uprising would be probably more like series of mini civil wars within legions and guard regiments/armies.

 

[Tyzuris]

Are the TTL Space Marines as capable as OTL Space Marines?

Yes. Assume the Emperor somehow finds a way to create Space Marines while skipping the Primarch creation.

 

[ATP]

Yes. Assume the Emperor somehow finds a way to create Space Marines while skipping the Primarch creation.

Possible,if he made lesser version of Custodes.Chaos could fuck itself,instead of taking 50% of Astartes they would be lucky to get 10%.And Emprah would be healthy.
So,in WH40 IoM would get most of DaoT technology,Tau would be either wiped out or taken as client race,Mechanicus would start making science....

You knew? you just win Galaxy for Emprah.Till 100+ Tyranid fleets come.....

 

[Aldarion]

With no Primarchs to corrupt, how much further will Chaos' attempts at Emperor's plans be hampered?

Quite a bit. IIRC, Primarchs have a psychic influence on their legions, so when Primarchs fell, Legions tended to follow suit. If there are no Primarchs, Chaos will have to work Marine by Marine.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Possible,if he made lesser version of Custodes.Chaos could fuck itself,instead of taking 50% of Astartes they would be lucky to get 10%.And Emprah would be healthy.
So,in WH40 IoM would get most of DaoT technology,Tau would be either wiped out or taken as client race,Mechanicus would start making science....

You knew? you just win Galaxy for Emprah.Till 100+ Tyranid fleets come.....

And if the Imperium is actually running properly and has had 10000 years to invent new stuff and recover old stuff they should be able to beat the Tyranids albeit with a lot of losses

 

[ATP]

And if the Imperium is actually running properly and has had 10000 years to invent new stuff and recover old stuff they should be able to beat the Tyranids albeit with a lot of losses

If they get Honor Harrington series missiles,they would massacre them from safe distance.

 

[Rhyse]

Even without the primarchs, the legions were going to fall regardless. The Emperors Imperial Truth was not capable of dealing with the universe as it was. Planets that they took had infestations of chaos, humans that joined the Empire were simply not going to just shrug and abandon the magic and gods that are demonstrably proven to have worked.

The primarchs were magnesium flares floating in cans of petrol that chaos set off. But the legions were still volatile as fuck. If he doesn't make the Primarchs then the legions are getting sent out with human or astartes commanders; and those commanders are corruptible. Chaos upped its game because the Emperor did; and even without the primarchs chaos will still be able to up its game as the Emperor does.

The Emperor might not end up on the throne, and the Empire might not fall; but at the very least there'd be brushfire incidents all over the place; the lack of demi-godlike rulers to keep the peace would exacerbate that issue. The Emperors crusade was already being bogged down, his men were already tired, his resources already stretched when the schism happened. The Great Crusade isn't going to keep on rolling because the Emperor is trying to force the universe into a box that it won't fit. It doesn't matter how much the Astartes go 'Demons aren't real lol' because Demons are real.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

The Legions are harder to corrupt en-mass. Whether they could have conquered the galaxy is something of an open question though. I mean Ullenor, the Rangdan, etc.

Regardless, the issue was never the Primarchs as a whole or the legions. It was that the Emperor never bothered to create the administrative apparatus needed to secure the Imperium.

I mean yeah, you had Angry-Lad, Emo Priest, BATMAN!, and Cunty Arrogance (Magnus) being allowed to get away with their bullshit but even that is largely because the Emperor just didn't give a fuck.

This is a man who was willing to erase two legions and Primarchs from history, who was willing to purge the Thunderwarriors, and he wasn't willing to purge the XVth once it was seen that the Fleshchange wasn't an isolated incident?

Or who decided to half ass his chastisement of Lorgar. I mean he could have grabbed him by the scruff of his neck and kept him at his side for re-education while parceling out his legion into penny packet forces assigned to actually competent Legions for reeducation and ordering Guilliman to take his legion back through Lorgars conquests and set them to rights. Instead he said "You bad boy Lorgar, I'm gonna burn your toy now. And have a couple of babysitters who are going to let you get away with anything." and left.

The Emperor was either an idiot of the highest order and a raging incompetent who couldn't plot or politic his way out of a wet paper bag, or the purpose(s) of the Legions, Primarches, Great Crusade, Imperial Truth, and even the Imperium as a whole were far different from what anyone short of his own inner circle knew about.

 

[Aldarion]

The Emperor was either an idiot of the highest order and a raging incompetent who couldn't plot or politic his way out of a wet paper bag, or the purpose(s) of the Legions, Primarches, Great Crusade, Imperial Truth, and even the Imperium as a whole were far different from what anyone short of his own inner circle knew about.

One theory / explanation I have found is that he is just asocial as fuck. Basically, he can organize everything and manipulate people, but he cannot ever gain true loyalty because he treats people like cogs in a machine. Guilliman spells it out after his rebirth IIRC., and even before that it is clear that Guilliman - probably one of the most loyal Primarchs - is loyal to humanity, and Emperor's idea of uniting humanity for its protection, not necessarily to the Emperor personally.

 

[ATP]

The Legions are harder to corrupt en-mass. Whether they could have conquered the galaxy is something of an open question though. I mean Ullenor, the Rangdan, etc.

Regardless, the issue was never the Primarchs as a whole or the legions. It was that the Emperor never bothered to create the administrative apparatus needed to secure the Imperium.

I mean yeah, you had Angry-Lad, Emo Priest, BATMAN!, and Cunty Arrogance (Magnus) being allowed to get away with their bullshit but even that is largely because the Emperor just didn't give a fuck.

This is a man who was willing to erase two legions and Primarchs from history, who was willing to purge the Thunderwarriors, and he wasn't willing to purge the XVth once it was seen that the Fleshchange wasn't an isolated incident?

Or who decided to half ass his chastisement of Lorgar. I mean he could have grabbed him by the scruff of his neck and kept him at his side for re-education while parceling out his legion into penny packet forces assigned to actually competent Legions for reeducation and ordering Guilliman to take his legion back through Lorgars conquests and set them to rights. Instead he said "You bad boy Lorgar, I'm gonna burn your toy now. And have a couple of babysitters who are going to let you get away with anything." and left.

The Emperor was either an idiot of the highest order and a raging incompetent who couldn't plot or politic his way out of a wet paper bag, or the purpose(s) of the Legions, Primarches, Great Crusade, Imperial Truth, and even the Imperium as a whole were far different from what anyone short of his own inner circle knew about.

They have no other choice.They first created cool tabletop game when cool figurines fought each other in melee,and later they must created lore why IoM was that stupid.
So,when their IoM was created by superhuman capable of destroing planets,he must be idiot to made it into what WH40 is.

That is how you end if you made game first,and myths later.