What If? What if TNO Russia in 1962 ISOT to otl 1962?

[Winston Bush]

Above is a map of all the different warlord states of Russia. How would the USA react to it’s archnemesis suddenly being replace by a bunch of warlords and literal nazis?Would the UN security Council Appoint a new nation to be it’s 5th member? Or would it be reduce to 4?How would the Russians react?

 

[ATP]

All communists on Earth would get heart attack.
But since those new states do not have wester parts of Russia,Ukraine,Belaruss and Caucasus,soviet there would try to conqer all that new states.
The same goes for Mao.Since i do not nothing about TNO russia,i do not knew how succesful they could be.

P.S soviet vassals in Europe could try become independent,West germany would try coerce East ,East germany would cry for help to remained soviets.Interesting times,indeed.

 

[Winston Bush]

do not nothing about TNO russia,i do not knew how succesful they could be.

Just imagine warlord era China but with nukes and a guy who thinks that Alexei of The House Romanov is Still alive can potentially unite Russia.

 

[Winston Bush]

Omsk

Omsk, officially the Siberian Black League, is a warlord state in Western Siberia. Occupying the territory of the former Omsk Oblast, it borders Tomsk to the north, Kokshetau and Pavlodar to the south, Tyumen to the east, and Novosibirsk to the west. Following the dissolution of the Soviet...

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Komi

Komi, officially the Komi Republic, is a Russian warlord state in European Russia. It borders Plesetsk to the north-west, Ukhta to the north-east, Vologda to the west and south-west, Vyatka to the south, and the Order of Saint George to the east. Komi is led by the People's Democratic Socialist...

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Discuss Everything About The New Order: Last Days of Europe Wiki | Fandom

"Can we have Himmler world take over plans like Hermman Goring?" and more great discussions about The New Order: Last Days of Europe Wiki

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Vyatka

Vyatka, officially the Principality of Vyatka, is a monarchist state founded by Head of the House of Romanov Grand Duke Vladimir Kirillovich (styled Tsar Vladimir III). Kirillovich collaborated with Germany during World War II, and would with German permission form a Russian contingent and...

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Aryan Brotherhood

The Aryan Brotherhood, also referred to as Perm, due to its geographical location, is a warlord state in western Russia. It borders Vyatka to the west, Bashkiria and the Ural League to the south, Zlatoust to the east, and the Order of Saint George to the north. The country operates under a...

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the Articles for some of the warlords.

 

[PsihoKekec]

As ATP pointed out, the reminder of the Soviet union would try to sort out the clusterfuck, perhaps they will be able to prevent any outside intervention by a threat of nuclear force. They would probably keep their UN seat, with all the Western world sitting back and munching popcorn, as USSR has just been badly crippled and even if they regain all of their former territories, their economy will still be busted.

 

[ATP]

Just imagine warlord era China but with nukes and a guy who thinks that Alexei of The House Romanov is Still alive can potentially unite Russia.

Then soviet remnants would not reclaim much,especially that - if i remember correctly - all their manufacturies which made nukes go to other Earth.Soviet probably have only tactical nukes remained.
But tank factories are still on Ukraine,so they sould fight.

Who would win? it depends on warlords reaction.If they let soviet conqer those close to them,they could get something.But - those warlords must as made temporarly peace and see who would kill more reds.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Warlords are fragmented and at each others throat, they are not as well armed as USSR and they won't unite against it, so USSR, which also has the bulk of Soviet standing army, will take them down, one after another, but it will cost them. And reintegrating the conquered/liberated areas will be a nightmare

 

[Winston Bush]

Warlords are fragmented and at each others throat, they are not as well armed as USSR and they won't unite against it, so USSR, which also has the bulk of Soviet standing army, will take them down, one after another, but it will cost them. And reintegrating the conquered/liberated areas will be a nightmare

The USSR is Transported to the TNO-verse in this scenario.

 

[PsihoKekec]

The USSR is Transported to the TNO-verse in this scenario.

Entire USSR, within 1962 borders, is transported to the TNO and vice-versa? In that case the Warsaw pact countries (especially the Poland) and the Soviet army forces stationed there turn 180 degrees and invade the nazi-controlled parts of the Soviet union, probably with NATO blessing, because Nazis are even more fuck-nope back then than they are today. They can take it as nazis would be cut off from their heartland, but the resurgent USSR would be completely industrially crippled, becoming the largest warlord state and embarking on arduous campaign to reunite all of the USSR, but won't be able to control the Communist block as the reunification war will take all of it's energy. Also, as ATP pointed out, China might get adventurous.
In the TNO-verse, USSR promptly mobilizes and goes full Leroy Jenkins.

 

[Winston Bush]

In the TNO-verse, USSR promptly mobilizes and goes full Leroy Jenkins.

And thus ends the TNO world via thermonuclear war with either the reich,USA,or Japan.

 

[PsihoKekec]

It's a horrible world anyway, at least they won't need to wait decades to play Fallout.

 

[Winston Bush]

It's a horrible world anyway, at least they won't need to wait decades to play Fallout.

Maybe Burgundy could survive? I mean they’ve been preparing for this moment(The Thermonuclear war,not the USSR)

 

[PsihoKekec]

Preparing for nuclear war is not the same as being prepared for nuclear war.

 

[Winston Bush]

Preparing for nuclear war is not the same as being prepared for nuclear war.

Hmmm. How would things change back in our world? Also if The USSR doesn’t go leeroy jenkins how would the TNO verse cold war change?

 

[ATP]

And thus ends the TNO world via thermonuclear war with either the reich,USA,or Japan.

No,it would not.Soviets in 1961 widraw,becouse USA had H bombs,300 missiles,more then 1000 bombers and few submarines capable of delivering payload.
Soviets had H bombs and only 20-30 missiles,no bombers and subs capable of deliver anything before USA destroy them.War in 1962 would destroy 100 cities in reich/USA/Japan ,but soviets in turn would be destroyed.

They could destroy one country - probable reich - but they would die,too.And Japan with USA would survive.

More interesting is our world - becouse soviet remnants would become just bigger russian warlords,like @PsihoKekec said.They conqer some,but certainly not all.Becouse remained would unite against them.

West Germany - in 1962 they were partially run by former nazis.Interesting would be their reaction to russian nazis - especially then during WW2 they have soviet supporters there.
There is very interesting book by Jurgen Thorwald "The Illusion" about soviet soldiers serving germany during WW2.People who used them would be co-rulers of West Germany.

 

[ForeverShogo]

I imagine it would depend. Some of the warlord states might get outside support from NATO just because, well, they aren't communist. Even discounting that a few of them are democratic, market liberal states, or trying to be, well, it's not like we've never propped up less than pleasant regimes as long as they were opposed to communism.

Nukes shouldn't really be a concern. The warlord states that reach a position to even attempt to acquire nukes don't do so until the 70s, and I think it takes until the 80s for their nuclear programs to reach a point in which they're even able to produce a single bomb. (And that's after one of them has basically unified the parts of Russia not controlled by the Nazis or their puppets.)

That said, the warlord states are still going to be in a really shitty condition. The parts of the Soviet Union that didn't get swapped will probably be able to conquer all of the warlord states. Even if the rest of the Warsaw Pact takes advantage of things to tell the Soviets to fuck off.

Of course, the Soviets will be ruined by having to retake so much of their land and rebuild it all from the absolutely squalid and economically ruinous condition it's all in. So the Cold War is basically done with much sooner. Which honestly might result in the West becoming friendlier to leftism for no other reason than because you have 30 less years of the Soviet Union being the great big enemy.

Because, honestly, without half a century of a sustained Red Scare do you really think a fear of communism and socialism is going to last long enough for it to have had the impact it has had in our timeline?

 

[Winston Bush]

@ForeverShogo excellent analysis,but may i ask? What would happen if the Scenario was reverse?

 

[ATP]

I imagine it would depend. Some of the warlord states might get outside support from NATO just because, well, they aren't communist. Even discounting that a few of them are democratic, market liberal states, or trying to be, well, it's not like we've never propped up less than pleasant regimes as long as they were opposed to communism.

Nukes shouldn't really be a concern. The warlord states that reach a position to even attempt to acquire nukes don't do so until the 70s, and I think it takes until the 80s for their nuclear programs to reach a point in which they're even able to produce a single bomb. (And that's after one of them has basically unified the parts of Russia not controlled by the Nazis or their puppets.)

That said, the warlord states are still going to be in a really shitty condition. The parts of the Soviet Union that didn't get swapped will probably be able to conquer all of the warlord states. Even if the rest of the Warsaw Pact takes advantage of things to tell the Soviets to fuck off.

Of course, the Soviets will be ruined by having to retake so much of their land and rebuild it all from the absolutely squalid and economically ruinous condition it's all in. So the Cold War is basically done with much sooner. Which honestly might result in the West becoming friendlier to leftism for no other reason than because you have 30 less years of the Soviet Union being the great big enemy.

Because, honestly, without half a century of a sustained Red Scare do you really think a fear of communism and socialism is going to last long enough for it to have had the impact it has had in our timeline?

It would be true - if West was not friendly to leftistm entire time with exception of Reagan and Tchater rules.Without american credits and technology,soviet union would bancrupt long before 1991.

 

[ForeverShogo]

If you think Reagan and Thatcher were the only times the West stood in opposition to leftism . . .Then I honestly don't know what to say to that.

As for the question of the reverse . . . I assume you mean most of the Soviet Union suddenly ending up in TNO?

Probably the nuclear annihilation of most of Europe and Central Asia. The Soviets and the Nazis will both have thousands of nuclear weapons as well as varying types of ballistic missiles.

Though given how goddamn trigger happy the TNO nuclear powers are, it might just see the entire world nuked. But if we assume the rest of the world doesn't go full retard . . . I guess it goes from a tri-polar Cold War to a bi-polar one between America and Japan. Assuming fallout doesn't utterly fuck Japan and it's sphere.

I just don't expect the Soviets not to try to attack the Nazis and triggering a nuclear exchange. Not necessarily because I think they're suicidal, but because I figure someone somewhere is going to fly off the handle before they realize these Nazis are nuclear capable.