Woodrow Wilson Respect Thread

YMMV, but IMO 27% vs 23% of the vote is not "absolutely pasting".
OK - it is complicated :)
Considering that he ran as an independent against the republican party and kicked their ass? yeah a Trump comparison is actually fitting. Teddy was who the people wanted but not who the party leadership wanted. so they pulled some shenanigans and ended up fucking themselves when Roosevelt ran anyways. Odds are that there would have been severely depressed turnout if he hadn't and Wilson would have won anyways.
 
Considering that he ran as an independent against the republican party and kicked their ass? yeah a Trump comparison is actually fitting. Teddy was who the people wanted but not who the party leadership wanted. so they pulled some shenanigans and ended up fucking themselves when Roosevelt ran anyways. Odds are that there would have been severely depressed turnout if he hadn't and Wilson would have won anyways.
The “old boys” in any party seem to have a nasty habit of making really bad decisions when they don’t need to, especially when it comes to a popular outsider. It adds to my theory that corruption ultimately devastates IQ.
 
The Agenda is Strong in this one ... but quite a few things seem true.

Some nice photos of early 4WD trucks. IMO the Nash Quad is 2 cute!!111
 
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Woodrow Wilson is one of those people who are forgotten in the annals of history because he didn't do anything really notable that only he could do as a positive while he was alive, what evil he did was buried behind the scenes until everyone involved was dead and nobody cared or just wasn't apparent enough to anybody reasonably looking later to warrant condemnation.

An example being crimes of 'precedent' in which Wilson does something like invent Wilsonian Interventionism which led directly to Vietnam, Afghanistan and the whole concept of forever wars, yet nobody except a person who has closely looked into Wilson's history would ever associate the concept with him.

It's the same as his actions concerning African Americans most of his actions just got swept under the rug and forgotten about as well, for years a lot of people just chalked up Wilson's attitudes towards race as "Well it was 1912-1919 every white guy at that time was racist." and that is extremely too forgiving and unfair to a vast portion of Americans at the time.
 
Besides TR terrorising the various independent and sovereign Carribean states, not to mention partitioning Columbia - and which somehow is different (and not as Evul!) to what Wilson did - I've seen it mentioned that the Fed pre-Wilson was (pretty much) segregated, Jim Crow seeping in a decade or two before Demonic! Wilson came along.
 
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Woodrow Wilson is one of those people who are forgotten in the annals of history because he didn't do anything really notable that only he could do as a positive while he was alive, what evil he did was buried behind the scenes until everyone involved was dead and nobody cared or just wasn't apparent enough to anybody reasonably looking later to warrant condemnation.

An example being crimes of 'precedent' in which Wilson does something like invent Wilsonian Interventionism which led directly to Vietnam, Afghanistan and the whole concept of forever wars, yet nobody except a person who has closely looked into Wilson's history would ever associate the concept with him.

It's the same as his actions concerning African Americans most of his actions just got swept under the rug and forgotten about as well, for years a lot of people just chalked up Wilson's attitudes towards race as "Well it was 1912-1919 every white guy at that time was racist." and that is extremely too forgiving and unfair to a vast portion of Americans at the time.
Mostly true,but everybody who is aware of fact that Fed fucked USA knew,that Wilson made it possible.
So,till Fed get finally disbanded,people would curse him.
 
Besides TR terrorising the various independent and sovereign Carribean states, not to mention partitioning Columbia - and which somehow is different (and not as Evul!) to what Wilson did - I've seen it mentioned that the Fed pre-Wilson was (pretty much) segregated, Jim Crow seeping in a decade or two before Demonic! Wilson came along.
Nah see TR was honest about the colonialist ambitions there. mostly it was snapping up old spanish colonies. Wilson made it to spread/protect democracy. one is honestly selling the country on why the war is a good idea. the other is used to get us involved in the middle east.

Jim Crow was seeping in true. it wasn't a federal thing and Wilson brought it to the Federal Government. before that it was just the southern states enforcing it.
 
He's buried in a Cathedral IIRC.

I tend to be against iconoclasm generally anyhow. Even though he is much maligned now it's not universal and he's not a Hitler or whatever.

Looking over the memorials of him, I don't see any particular reason to remove his Presidential Library or various historical sites like his Boyhood home or whatever. It's probably basically a museum which is the prevailing logic for the minimum of preservation ATM.

I don't see any statues of him anywhere being reported up ATM which is interesting. And we don't need to throw up any new ones most certainly. ;)
The biggest memorial I know of to him is that the I95 bridge across the Potomac bears his name. He doesn't even deserve that.

Damnit why did people in 1914 USA have to be such damn Anglo-philes and forget that Britain is the enemy?!

Incidentally, you might like an alternative timeline I am working on.
Before WW2 the US had a strong inferiority complex to Europe, and this was especially pronounced amongst the New England Elites, who, if you know anything about history, were always Anglofiles going back to the Early Republic (in fact, one of the early divisions between the Democrat-Republicans and Federalists was that the D-Rs were anti-Anglo and Pro-French while the Federalists were Pro-Anglo and anti-French). This, of course, at the end of the day goes back to money, as more of the Yankee economy was tied up in direct trade with Britain, while the more agrarian Southern economy of the time didn't care who bought their goods.

This changed when Cotton Became King, and the rise of America's own Industrial Revolution, the Yankee Traders who were dominate in the early republic were replaced by factory owners who saw Britain as competition, while the South's Cotton economy became heavily tied to Great Britain's textile mills. However, just because the Yankee Industrialists saw Great Britain as a competitor economically didn't mean they saw them as an enemy, and many of the ideas and designs they were implementing came from Great Britain. So both these elites of the time developed friendly feelings towards GB. This of course was made even easier due to the common language and shared cultural heritage. The average American could meet a Brit and while they would have some differences, they could easily communicate and even, say, share opinions on which Shakespeare plays were best. Further again because of the common language, there was a MASSIVE influx of Britain novels and other writings reprinted and published in America (and vice versa) so that Americans were often reading the same current authors as Brits and vice versa, just with a bit of delay. Meanwhile the language barrier meant continental authors took more time to be brought over and in fewer quantity and of course slower (after all, making a translation of a piece takes longer and more expertise than just reprinting something already in English).

What this means is that by the early 20th century the US and England generally saw each other as friendly related cultures, American Elites looked up to continental elites and felt inferior to them, and the elites they had the easiest time corresponding with were, of course, the English ones.

Also, bear in mind, WW1 was as much about supporting the FRENCH as the British. After all, when American troops arrived in France the saying was "Lafyette we have come!" in reference to the American Revolutionary figure of the Maquis de Lafyette...
 
when American troops arrived in France the saying was "Lafyette we have come!" in reference to the American Revolutionary figure of the Maquis de Lafyette...
Convenient propaganda. Had Pershing arrived to support Good Kaiser Will he'd have said "Stueben, come we have!".

Pershing's soundbite came after three years of pro-Entente brainwashing, thoughtless regurgitation of British propaganda.
 
BTW - WW has a square named for him in Warsaw. Nothing unusual. The "exotic" element is that in Polish "w" is read and pronounced as "v" (English "w" is "ł", BTW). As in pre-WWII Poland nobody knew English, the square was "Plats Veelsona" (Wilson's Square) for everybody. And so it remained to this day, in spite of broader knowledge of funny English pronounciation.
When in the 1990s the subway/underground reached that place, the locals insisted that the announcement of that station over the tannoy follow tradition and be "incorrect", i.e. Plats Veelsona, and not Plats Łilsona.
 
It was interesting seeing all of the Woodrow Wilson tributes internationally and it obviously makes sense. While many find Wilson's foreign policy ideals after World War One bad, the idea of 'Self Determination" was likely and rightfully appealing to many who were abroad and wanted determination for their own peoples and societies, for better or worse for the world at large.
 
It was interesting seeing all of the Woodrow Wilson tributes internationally and it obviously makes sense. While many find Wilson's foreign policy ideals after World War One bad, the idea of 'Self Determination" was likely and rightfully appealing to many who were abroad and wanted determination for their own peoples and societies, for better or worse for the world at large.
Unless you were not European. Then it was get colonized time. Which helped cement the trouble in China, Japan and Vietnam in the interwar period and onward.
 
Well, Wilson put "Poland can into space" into his 14 points which, for attention starved Poland, was a Big Thing!
:p
Yes and no.I thought so until i read about his plans for Europe - he do not wanted independent Poland,but vassal state of Democratic Russia.

Becouse for him only big states mattered.
 
Unless you were not European. Then it was get colonized time. Which helped cement the trouble in China, Japan and Vietnam in the interwar period and onward.

Interesting. I didn't know there were tributes or memorials to Woodrow Wilson in China, Japan and Vietnam. That does sound peculiar.
 
Interesting. I didn't know there were tributes or memorials to Woodrow Wilson in China, Japan and Vietnam. That does sound peculiar.
I was talking about Wilson’s supposed ‘right to self determination’. My apologies for not being clear.
 
Yes and no.I thought so until i read about his plans for Europe - he do not wanted independent Poland,but vassal state of Democratic Russia.

Becouse for him only big states mattered.
this is literally the opposite of the truth
 
The biggest memorial I know of to him is that the I95 bridge across the Potomac bears his name. He doesn't even deserve that.


Before WW2 the US had a strong inferiority complex to Europe, and this was especially pronounced amongst the New England Elites, who, if you know anything about history, were always Anglofiles going back to the Early Republic (in fact, one of the early divisions between the Democrat-Republicans and Federalists was that the D-Rs were anti-Anglo and Pro-French while the Federalists were Pro-Anglo and anti-French). This, of course, at the end of the day goes back to money, as more of the Yankee economy was tied up in direct trade with Britain, while the more agrarian Southern economy of the time didn't care who bought their goods.

This changed when Cotton Became King, and the rise of America's own Industrial Revolution, the Yankee Traders who were dominate in the early republic were replaced by factory owners who saw Britain as competition, while the South's Cotton economy became heavily tied to Great Britain's textile mills. However, just because the Yankee Industrialists saw Great Britain as a competitor economically didn't mean they saw them as an enemy, and many of the ideas and designs they were implementing came from Great Britain. So both these elites of the time developed friendly feelings towards GB. This of course was made even easier due to the common language and shared cultural heritage. The average American could meet a Brit and while they would have some differences, they could easily communicate and even, say, share opinions on which Shakespeare plays were best. Further again because of the common language, there was a MASSIVE influx of Britain novels and other writings reprinted and published in America (and vice versa) so that Americans were often reading the same current authors as Brits and vice versa, just with a bit of delay. Meanwhile the language barrier meant continental authors took more time to be brought over and in fewer quantity and of course slower (after all, making a translation of a piece takes longer and more expertise than just reprinting something already in English).

What this means is that by the early 20th century the US and England generally saw each other as friendly related cultures, American Elites looked up to continental elites and felt inferior to them, and the elites they had the easiest time corresponding with were, of course, the English ones.

Also, bear in mind, WW1 was as much about supporting the FRENCH as the British. After all, when American troops arrived in France the saying was "Lafyette we have come!" in reference to the American Revolutionary figure of the Maquis de Lafyette...
Well, the situation should improve now that you are importing a ruling class from all over Asia and a working and lower class from latin America, the middle east and Africa.

Less wasps to simp for the UK. :)
 

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